D&D 5E cancelled 5e announcement at Gencon??? Anyone know anything about this?

[pemerton]

On the "great wheel" - it's been different things in different editions (and even within the same edition - it changed between the AD&D PHB and the AD&D Deities and Demigods).

I tend to agree with this comment about the AD&D PHB's version of it (which occurs in a 4/1 rpg.net review of that book):

The final section of the book includes an alignment graph (without systematic suggestions for use) and the planes of existence, including the rather evocative assignment of Earthly polytheistic pantheons within the AD&D alignment system.
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My personal view is that some of that "evocativeness" was lost when DDG split up the pantheons by alignment in a way that did not seem true to the original flavour of Appendix IV. And this is really the beginning of the Planescape approach.

 

[Wicht]

Considering you write planar stuff for the competition...

Yes, because writing RPG material for one company, by its very nature, automatically biases you against all other game companies and their work.

 

[Argyle King]

Ebberon has a similar concept with their planes, with different planes moving closer to and further away from the prime. Different eras in history have been influenced by this, iirc.

I'm aware, and that has some similarities to how I ran the Great Wheel, but it's not the same thing. What I meant in my previous post was that the planes would also change their positions in relation to each other. The wheel would turn, and the 'gears' (I suppose you could imagine them as smaller wheels) would turn as well.

quick and dirty example:

...P......X....
P.....O......X
...P......X....

The letters above represent planes on The Great Wheel. The Ps are part of a smaller wheel/gear inside the larger and greater wheel. The same is true of the Xs. Currently, the position of the O is such that it is part of two smaller wheels. Perhaps it is normally a P; it's current position leads to it being moved to the X track for a while when the X gear moves.

While not common, this set up lead to the possibility of times when a plane like The Abyss might find itself adjacent to one of the heavenly planes. Some of the more manipulative and powerful outsiders such as Asmodeus might plan to take advantage of the movements far in advance by studying their movements or even have schemes to alter the movements.

It should also be noted that I also slightly house ruled how certain planar spells worked because of this set up. In particular, it could be far more difficult to travel via magic from the plane you're currently on to one that is far away from it on The Wheel than it would be to go to the plane right next door. On the other hand, I also had portals which were similar the Moon Gates of Ultima fame act as naturally occurring portals which could be used to travel from one plane to the next. The trick was having some knowledge of when the plane you wanted to go to would be adjacent to the one you were on.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

What's this thread titled again? What thread am I in?

 

[catastrophic]

What's this thread titled again? What thread am I in?

Yeah, let's all pretend this is a legit rumor some more. The con came and went, there was no pulled announcement, or anything of the kind.

But if you don't see anything wrong with that podcast, I really have nothing else to say. I would have certainly said the same thing about other companies' employees, had I witnessed them displaying that kind of behavior.

The 'type of behaviour' is all yours.

You're welcome to your opinion, but by contrast I've found WotC's 4e planar material largely uninspiring except when it was covering some of the locations with a history in prior D&D material, and as a whole I found much of it lacked the depth and sense of history that inspired and continues to inspire me when I look back at some of that 2e (and some bits of 3e) material on the planes.

The history of the 4e planes is well established, and is defined by sweeping events of the past like the dawn war and the placing of the seed of evil. In contrast, there isn't that much history to 3e cosmology, and a lot of it was established pretty late in the edition's lifespan, under the same editorial approach that created 4e.

They went way too far IMO in the direction of 'everything must be an adventure location for PCs to kill evil things and there's no need for boring depth and world detail beyond that because D&D isn't about traipsing through faerie rings and interacting with the little people'. But tastes may vary, and I'm glad that you've found something that fits your style.

This is not an accurate description of their approach, or my style of play.

You're particularly neglecting the feywild- you do know there wasn't actually even a fairie realm in the 3e cosmology, right? I mean, for 4e, they added an entire huge realm based around the idea.

Not to mention, you're also doing a disservice to my campaign, wich just fyi, probably blows yours out of the water when it comes to depth and world detail. Yeah, I went there.

I have ten players in two games, I've been running this campaign since 4e began, and if somebody described the campaign as 'kill evil things and no need for boring depth' we'd probably laugh in their face. And no, I don't care if you've been running your game since gary gygax was a tween or whatever.

I'm aware, and that has some similarities to how I ran the Great Wheel, but it's not the same thing. What I meant in my previous post was that the planes would also change their positions in relation to each other. The wheel would turn, and the 'gears' (I suppose you could imagine them as smaller wheels) would turn as well.

IIRC the eberon planes also trended closer to one another at certain stages, I may be wrong but I think the kalashtar in their home plane conflict with the nightmare crazy plane at one point. The important thing remains the same through- moving planes around is cool!

I should also be noted that I also slightly house ruled how certain planar spells worked because of this set up. In particular, it could be far more difficult to travel via magic from the plane you're currently on to one that is far away from it on The Wheel than it would be to go to the plane right next door. On the other hand, I also had portals which were similar the Moon Gates of Ultima fame act as naturally occurring portals which could be used to travel from one plane to the next. The trick was having some knowledge of when the plane you wanted to go to would be adjacent to the one you were on.

I must admit I wince when people talk about plane specific magic because I found the 3e planescape approach a huge hassle that just punished the pcs for wanting to go to interesting places and still be effective there. Your approach of relating it to things like travel sounds far more viable, while still making the journies meaningful and challenging.

 

[Andor]

"My tiefling hooker plays like a board game..."

You're moving your pieces wrong.

 

[Shemeska]

Yes, because writing RPG material for one company, by its very nature, automatically biases you against all other game companies and their work.

Fwiw, I'd like to point out that I've worked on planar material for more than one cosmology. Outside of the Planescape/Great Wheel model, I've done a lot with Paizo's cosmology which is not the same cosmological model, and in the near future I'm going to be pitching in on KQ's 'Dark Roads and Golden Hells' which is itself an entirely different cosmology unto itself.

They each have their own quirks, assumptions, and atmosphere and having written for one of them, I wouldn't go into another and try to force fit anything from a prior one that wasn't already part of the framework. I'll happily work on planar stuff that's vastly different from classical Planescape if it's cool and evocative to me. Different cosmologies give freedom to do things differently in one that I might not be able to do in another.

 

[Then]

He's not going to share his source, xechnao, nor should he. Let's not tempt Morrus to compromise his integrity by continuing to fish for a name.

Why shouldn't he?

He makes an outrageous claim covered in vagaries, after Gencon no less, not a single peep about it during, then covers the rumor with a convenient 'they pulled it at the last minute' claim.

If this was some shmoe on the internet it would be laughed off(unless you dislike 4e then it wouldn't be), but because it's Morrus it has that aura of plausibility, no matter how outrageous it is.

Strange that Morrus tweeted this
"Bizarrely, I didn't see anyone at all from WotC except for a brief hello from Rodney Thompson at Scotty's one night. Freaky!"

Then comes back with the 5e rumor. If Rodney is the only person from WotC he even saw, who could be this 'source' be that would have any information, especially of this magnitude?

 

[Wicht]

Fwiw, I'd like to point out that I've worked on planar material for more than one cosmology.

Since you quoted my post, I feel compelled to point out I was trying for sarcasm (just in case it didn't come across). I don't personally think that writing for one company precludes the possibility of liking another company's work.

 

[Shemeska]

In contrast, there isn't that much history to 3e cosmology, and a lot of it was established pretty late in the edition's lifespan, under the same editorial approach that created 4e.

Umm, might want to check that again. The "3e cosmology" was three editions old at that point, with years and an entire campaign setting's worth of gradual evolution for what was used as the default 3e cosmology. The two fiendish codex books in late 3e were gems, largely done by freelancers and much of that material isn't stuff that's in 4e.

You're particularly neglecting the feywild- you do know there wasn't actually even a fairie realm in the 3e cosmology, right? I mean, for 4e, they added an entire huge realm based around the idea.

There was a plane of faerie introduced as an optional plane in the 3e MotP. I suspect that it developed into the 4e feywild in some capacity, based on what else from that particular book eventually got ported to 4e.

And no, I don't care if you've been running your game since gary gygax was a tween or whatever.

You may be thinking I'm seriously, seriously older than I actually am.

IIRC the eberon planes also trended closer to one another at certain stages, I may be wrong but I think the kalashtar in their home plane conflict with the nightmare crazy plane at one point. The important thing remains the same through- moving planes around is cool!

Eberron's planes were indeed cool, and it's a shame that its unique qualities were watered down somewhat in 4e when some of the default 4e cosmology tropes were inserted into it. But the thing with "moving planes" is hard to define versus something like the Great Wheel because those planes weren't truly static in the sense of being locked into place within some overarching 3d space wherein you could objectively define their positions.

That "wheel" was a diagram to define the metaphysical relation between the alignment based planes. Those planes were infinite in size and you didn't have to walk literally across six planes to get to a seventh in some defined order, because there were portals that made any actual defined positional structure irrelevant many times. Granted you weren't likely to find as many portals to the Abyss in Elysium as you would to "adjacent" planes. It was only as tightly defined and fixed as you chose to play it.