"Cannot See," v. Blinded

[Xyrlove Woodsoul]

I'm a bit confused, I noticed a power in Essentails that has an effect: "the target cannot see x." Is this the same as the binded condition? Or is it worse or something?

 

[Balesir]

A reference for context would help, but in general it's not the same. A creature "cannot see" something to which it has no line of sight. That could be due to a Blinded condition, or it could be due to something that blocks line of sight being in the way. See the rules on Line of Sight for how solid objects, obscuring terrain and other things (like power areas that say they block line of sight) affect what a creature can see. See also Line of Effect - a related but not identical concept.

 

[Aulirophile]

Also a creature with Tremorsense/Blindsight can be blinded but can still see.... so there are differences.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

I recently posted a thread about "seeing" here. You might find some of it useful.

 

[Neonchameleon]

If a creature can not see x, it can see anything that isn't x. Walls. Other creatures. Pit traps.

If it's blinded, it can't see anything.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

If a creature can not see x, it can see anything that isn't x. Walls. Other creatures. Pit traps.

Can it see invisible pink unicorns and Russell's Teapot?

 

[Squire James]

The state is similar to a specific form of blindness, yes. "X is invisible to the target" and "X has total concealment from the target" are both valid interpretations of this effect. At any rate, these rules apply:

The target grants combat advantage to X.

The target's melee and ranged attacks against X suffer a -5 penalty to the attack roll. If the target is also hidden from X, the target cannot be attacked by a melee or ranged attack at all. Close and area attacks are unaffected.

 

[Xyrlove Woodsoul]

Ok. I understand now. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't a big difference between the two, namely, that, "cannot see x," didn't entail that, "x is hidden from the target." Because I finally figured out how the Blind, Invisible, and Hidden condition actually works, and the phrase, "cannot see x," momentarily, confused me. Thanks.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Ok. I understand now. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't a big difference between the two, namely, that, "cannot see x," didn't entail that, "x is hidden from the target." Because I finally figured out how the Blind, Invisible, and Hidden condition actually works, and the phrase, "cannot see x," momentarily, confused me. Thanks.

Yeah, you've got it. Basically if the 'not seeable' creature is attacked it is at -5.

While technically you can't directly attack a HIDDEN enemy with a ranged or melee power you can still swing at the square the enemy occupies, and still have the -5.

 

[Xyrlove Woodsoul]

Oh, if that happens, I just blindfold the players, and if they're dazed, I just make them spin around blindfolded, for a minute, or two, and them sit back down, it's a bit like "Pin the Tail on the Donkey." I know that's there's debate if doing that is the RAW, or not, but it definitely works!