Can't sneak attack in dungeons?

[AGGEMAM]

Should you really get a concealment bonus from mist/fog or dim/dusky light (not complete darkness, mind you) when someone is standing five feet away?

exactly my point a few posts back!

 

[Pielorinho]

It's not a classic scenario for a rogue to attack in pitch darkness, but it IS classic to attack at night, or in the wee hours of the morning, with a light fog permating the city streets. Wait until your mark passes, follow him, and when you get a chance, slip up and stick a shiv in his side.

I agree that light fog should offer no concealment in melee, unless they mean something different than I mean when saying light fog.

Daniel

 

[kreynolds]

...and when you get a chance, slip up and stick a shiv in his side.

Hehe. Someone's been watching too much OZ on HBO.

 

[Pielorinho]

Hehe. Someone's been watching too much OZ on HBO.

Never seen it. But I was in Oliver! when I was nine years old. Fagan taught me well .

Daniel

 

[jontherev]

It's not a classic scenario for a rogue to attack in pitch darkness, but it IS classic to attack at night, or in the wee hours of the morning, with a light fog permating the city streets. Wait until your mark passes, follow him, and when you get a chance, slip up and stick a shiv in his side.

I agree that light fog should offer no concealment in melee, unless they mean something different than I mean when saying light fog.

Daniel

It is too bad they didn't define light fog and moderate darkness better. Not to mention light foilage!

I would think a dense fog at 5' would be better than 20% myself. To me dense fog means you can't see jack. A light fog would be more open and only conceal portions of the surroundings. Perhaps 'moderate fog' would have been a better choice? For better or worse, this 10% concealment rule is a toy for the DM to use at his/her whim. Beware!

 

[Caliban]

It's not a classic scenario for a rogue to attack in pitch darkness, but it IS classic to attack at night, or in the wee hours of the morning, with a light fog permating the city streets. Wait until your mark passes, follow him, and when you get a chance, slip up and stick a shiv in his side.

I agree that light fog should offer no concealment in melee, unless they mean something different than I mean when saying light fog.

Daniel

I think that light fog wouldn't obscure at 5' either. If you look at the concealment chart on page 133 of the PHB, Dense Fog at 10 feet gives total concealment, while Dense fog at 5' feet gives 1/2 conealment (this is what obscuring mist does).

It doesn't list anything for light fog, but I think it makes sense that the 1/4 concealment is for light fog at 10', and light fog at 5' doesn't provide any concealment. I think it was just an oversight on the chart.

Also note that there isn't a concealment factor for "dim light." Lighting conditions don't give concealment until "moderate darkness". I think that a rogue could conceal themselves in a "moderate darkness" shadow and sneak attack someone who passes through a patch of moonlight or light from a streetlamp or window, as long as that patch of light is better than "moderate darkness."

 

[Anubis]

Like I said, best to ignore the little rules.

I'm gonna advocate no sneak attacks against 1/2 cover or 50% concealment or better, but sneak attacks will be allowed otherwise. I think that is the best way to handle it.

 

[jontherev]

Like I said, best to ignore the little rules.

I'm gonna advocate no sneak attacks against 1/2 cover or 50% concealment or better, but sneak attacks will be allowed otherwise. I think that is the best way to handle it.

Before one of your wizards try to be cute, make sure to tell them Shield won't help since it's a cover BONUS, and not actual cover.

 

[Killer Shrike]

I think that light fog wouldn't obscure at 5' either. If you look at the concealment chart on page 133 of the PHB, Dense Fog at 10 feet gives total concealment, while Dense fog at 5' feet gives 1/2 conealment (this is what obscuring mist does).

It doesn't list anything for light fog, but I think it makes sense that the 1/4 concealment is for light fog at 10', and light fog at 5' doesn't provide any concealment. I think it was just an oversight on the chart.

Also note that there isn't a concealment factor for "dim light." Lighting conditions don't give concealment until "moderate darkness". I think that a rogue could conceal themselves in a "moderate darkness" shadow and sneak attack someone who passes through a patch of moonlight or light from a streetlamp or window, as long as that patch of light is better than "moderate darkness."

I just wanted to add weight to this interpretation. This is how I adjudicate the matter as well; basically light fog or dim light would stop the Rogue from throwing weapons at 10-30 feet and getting sneak attack, but not stop them from sticking a weapon in them from melee at 5 feet to get sneak attack.

Whacking people from cover of darkness is a classic Rogue manuever and shouldnt be disallowed IMO.

 

[twjensen]

Light fog

Well, OK, they call it "light fog." And this conjures up images of keystone rogues who get up in the morning and stick people in the butt because "oops, couldn't get a clear view of your kidney. Let's try that again, shall we?"

But lets look at the whole picture. "Light" fog is actually fog SO dense that there is a 10% chance that I can't hit my target AT ALL. We're talking some potentially thick stuff here! It's called "light" because we might be talking about fog that at 20' or so gives ranged weapons a 10% miss but is pretty clear at a mere 5'.

This is one of those rules that requires a smart DM with a light hand on the rules-lawyering tiller.

(And to be clear, I see no problem denying a rogue sneak attack if there's a 10% concealment chance that he can't hit his target at all).