Can't touch the PCs! What's a DM to Do?

[Tzarevitch]

Okay, I'll give you a quick-and-dirty rundown.

Party of six 6th level characters: human sorc, human cleric, human druid, human fighter, elven rogue, and dwarven monk/psion.

I CANNOT touch them.

I have not inflicted a *single* point of damage on them that has lasted more than a minute since they hit fifth level, with the exception of a poison.

They get injured (god forbid something hits them and deals damage before they annihilate it!) and out come the CLW potions. I poison them, out come the neutralizer potions. I challenge them with a physically strong enemy, they get the jump with their good initiatve bonuses, find some way to get a surprise round, and hack it to death on the first or second round. I challenge them with a spellcaster and their minions, they just hack it faster. I challenge them with a trap, their saves prevent them from harm and if they take damage they cure it up immediately.

I need a challenge, a situation, or a creature that will be able to get the jump on the PCs and hack them apart the way ther PCs are doing to my creatures.

Any suggestions?

~Chris

No offense, but I think you need to think your encounters out a little better. There is no way a 6th level party should be beating the daylights out of whatever they encounter like you say.

There are only two PCs with any form of Spot in class. I can't imagine how they could spot an ambush before they fall into it (unless you are allowing them too-easy access to skill enhancing magic items). The max spot that group should have (not including Wis or any feats or racial abilities) is +9. As I recall in the DMG, foes waiting in ambush do not roll Hide checks. They take their bonus to Hide +25 because they have had time to set up (See section on Spot in the DMG).

It sounds like you may be presenting the PCs with bad guys right under their guns. Inferior foes need to use range and cover. Try a a group of 20 Dextrous 1nd lvl goblin brigands (fighters) with Rapid shot (and its prerequisite) and shortbows should be able to do a lot of damage to them.

Place the goblins in the trees or in prepared holes that are too small for the medium-sized PCs to follow them into or on a high rock (anywhere that inhibits movement and provides cover and in a position where the PCs can't charge them and have their mobility impaired). Make sure the goblins slather their arrows with the cheapest useful poison. If at all possible, the goblins should try not to get any closer than charge range (60 feet for normal people). Spread the goblins out so that one fireball can't get more than 2, and make sure that they aren't so close that they can be cleaved or whirlwinded. If the PCs charge a goblin. He should do nothing but run to the next cover location (so as not to draw an attack of opportunity).

Try not to use one big foe against them unless that foe has VERY good defenses. 6 on 1 is lousy odds for nearly anything.

With regard to traps, only two PCs have evasion. Use traps that save for 1/2 or ones that make an attack roll.

Tzarevitch

 

[Ciaran]

QUESTION FOR CHRISKABALLA

Chriskaballa,

Why don't you tell us a little bit about your game, so we have a better idea of how to spin our suggestions so that they'll be useful to you? Like, what's the game setting, what sorts of plots are going on, and what antagonists and repeating villains do the PCs have to deal with?

- Eric

 

[Wicht]

If I understand what you have posted (i.e. six characters, three players thus two characters per player) one of the first things I would do is kill off one of each player's characters or simply restrict them to one character each.

 

[KendricWolfStalker]

As Dm you are the ruler!!

I had the same thing they walked into a room and zap they are naked and have none of the items with which they started with. Bare hands no armor no books no spell components nothing that will wake them up. I use the rule that if I believe they have to good of a chance to hit something i make it bigger badder and tougher. Kill all of them and make them start over and this time be more cautious in what you give them.

 

[Kalendraf]

Try undead

The groups I'm DM'ing are a bit lower level than your bunch, but it seems like undead, lots of them maybe, could do the job for you. Many kinds of undeal deal stat damage rather than normal hit point damage. As a result, it's not such a simple matter to cure this. Sure there are spells like restoration and so forth, but it's not likely something they'll have memorized or handy on a scroll, and it's too high a level for a potion.

Shadows can nuke strength in a hurry if you have enough of them attacking. Remember it's a touch attack which ignores armor, so typically, the PC's find themselves in the mid-teens at best for armor class. A few shadows can quickly drop a character's strength (1d6) in just a few rounds. Also, remember that non-corporeal creatures are quite hard to hit. They have a 50% chance to ignore magical weapons and are immune to non-magical ones. Your cleric may be able to turn them, but you could raise the level of the undead or give them some added situational bonus (evil temple or an evil priest) bolstering their turn-resistance.

If you need to get really nasty, you can use higher level undead like wraiths or spectres. Those nuke character levels instead, but are non-corporeal and can give the characters major problems.

 

[Anabstercorian]

More vicious foes (less original)

Some of these are from magazine articles, but, here are some more vicious encounters.

The Ravenous Dead - Nothing but zombies... But these zombies infect you with disease, and they have regeneration, and they devour corpses. And you're locked in a maze with thirty of them.

Cold Air - It's a misty night, and it's cold. Unusually cold, in fact, and getting colder, as phantoms rise from the fog and reach to chill your hearts, concealed by the encroaching dark fog. Their chill presence lowers Dexterity and causes gradual subdual cold damage until the players defeat every one.

Stupid Mosquitoes - Dammit, there are sure a lot of mosquitoes out tonight! Who'dve thought they all carried malaria? Ooh, I got the runs.

It is LOUD in here!: The players are attacked by enormous Phantom Fungi, each of which has a Shrieker growing on it. By the fourth round, the characters will be going deaf.

Never saw THAT coming: The characters are bushwhacked by a Half-Celestial brigand and his men.

Ewwww, gross!: Use anything from the Unlawful Guide To Carnal Knowledge. Your characters will be giggling too much to use any sort of tactics.

 

[kamosa]

Okay, I'll give you a quick-and-dirty rundown.

Party of six 6th level characters: human sorc, human cleric, human druid, human fighter, elven rogue, and dwarven monk/psion.

I CANNOT touch them.

I have not inflicted a *single* point of damage on them that has lasted more than a minute since they hit fifth level, with the exception of a poison.

They get injured (god forbid something hits them and deals damage before they annihilate it!) and out come the CLW potions. I poison them, out come the neutralizer potions. I challenge them with a physically strong enemy, they get the jump with their good initiatve bonuses, find some way to get a surprise round, and hack it to death on the first or second round. I challenge them with a spellcaster and their minions, they just hack it faster. I challenge them with a trap, their saves prevent them from harm and if they take damage they cure it up immediately.

I need a challenge, a situation, or a creature that will be able to get the jump on the PCs and hack them apart the way ther PCs are doing to my creatures.

Any suggestions?

~Chris

Hey Chris

Sounds like you've gotten lots of advice, so I'll try to keep mine brief.

If they are killing your monsters too quickly, add hitpoints. There is a really easy system for adding levels onto monsters. This has the added bonus that the monsters will hit more often as well. Don't be afraid to throw a monster with a hundred or more hitpoints at them. They can hack on it for a while.

If the PC's are hitting too much, give the monsters better armor. Again, a hobgoblin is great, but a hobgoblin in plate is a site indeed. Increase their dex, cast the shield spell, or give them each a shield.

If the PC's are using distance damage, spread out your monsters. Don't have them rush in a clump at a sorc or wiz. Give the monsters potions of resistance or spell resistance.

Mix several low level monsters in with a couple bad A** monsters. Example, throw a couple ogres in with a pack of orcs and their pet troll. These sort of mixed groups present problems for groups. If you can handle it, throw in a spell caster to provide your own distance damage (the invisible mage droping a fireball should do a point or two to even your party.)

Don't be afraid to throw something at them your not sure they can beat. If that isn't a challenge, throw something tougher at them. Time teaches the right balance, and you just need to keep sticking your nose in there, you'll soon learn how to challenge them.