JacktheRabbit
Explorer
This is a big no no. As DM you should now what your players have and can do.
Chriskaballa said:
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Can't touch the PCs! What's a DM to Do?
- Thread starter Chriskaballa
- Start date
I hope this is no troll.
First, get the character sheets... get copies... whatever.
Go over said sheet with Fine tooth comb. I'm sure they suckered you into letting them "roll" their characters, so you wont clearly be able to see all the points they have added, so at least with stats you are out of luck. HOWEVER, you CAN and should add up their skill points and treasure totals. Anyone not within what should be, you just MAKE ADJUSTMENTS, and give them back telling them that THIS is your character now. I had super cheater one time, but he didn't know how persistant I was. You can quickly bring things under control by... well by being a DM. A DM knows his PC's general stats, has a copy of their sheets, knows what will and wont in general challenge his/her party. Just be a DM and it will be fine. If the get mad and leave... well you'll be better off. You might not think so... but you would. Some will want to stay, maybe even learn something. Being a DM requires the BALLS to make rules and say No. If you can't do that... don't DM.
First, get the character sheets... get copies... whatever.
Go over said sheet with Fine tooth comb. I'm sure they suckered you into letting them "roll" their characters, so you wont clearly be able to see all the points they have added, so at least with stats you are out of luck. HOWEVER, you CAN and should add up their skill points and treasure totals. Anyone not within what should be, you just MAKE ADJUSTMENTS, and give them back telling them that THIS is your character now. I had super cheater one time, but he didn't know how persistant I was. You can quickly bring things under control by... well by being a DM. A DM knows his PC's general stats, has a copy of their sheets, knows what will and wont in general challenge his/her party. Just be a DM and it will be fine. If the get mad and leave... well you'll be better off. You might not think so... but you would. Some will want to stay, maybe even learn something. Being a DM requires the BALLS to make rules and say No. If you can't do that... don't DM.
Chriskaballa said:
Yes, I know, many people have already said this, but I can't resist.
Don't even bother arguing with them about this little bit of insanity. Sounds like reason has long ago fled from this situation.
"Reasonably"
, if you can't see their sheets, you can't balance the encounter.Next encounter start with CR12's - one for each PC. If that doesn't work - increase by 2 each subsequent encounter.
Meatgrinder fun. No-fun people not fun.
I see everyone's latched onto the fundamental problem, here ...
I kind of like the way my current DM handles character sheets. (Not just because he reads these forums at times.
) At each level break, we get a new character sheet-from him, with adjustable changes (skill points, feat choices, etc.) that we have communicated to him. At the beginning of each session, we get a sheet with our current equipment, along with a cute 'the action so far' blurb summarizing the close of the previous session. I keep my own character sheet as well, but the 'official' character sheet is the one he gives me. I give it a once-over when I get to the table, but I'm not sure what the process would be if there was an error on his, 'cause there hasn't been one yet. (No, I'm not just saying that because he reads these forums at times. Actually, there were different skill points once, which I found was because I'd given myself one too many when I updated my personal sheet. Blast!) I can guess, though, that a dispute three hours into the session wouldn't go over well. (No, really! I do have a staff of power!)
I kind of like the way my current DM handles character sheets. (Not just because he reads these forums at times.
) At each level break, we get a new character sheet-from him, with adjustable changes (skill points, feat choices, etc.) that we have communicated to him. At the beginning of each session, we get a sheet with our current equipment, along with a cute 'the action so far' blurb summarizing the close of the previous session. I keep my own character sheet as well, but the 'official' character sheet is the one he gives me. I give it a once-over when I get to the table, but I'm not sure what the process would be if there was an error on his, 'cause there hasn't been one yet. (No, I'm not just saying that because he reads these forums at times. Actually, there were different skill points once, which I found was because I'd given myself one too many when I updated my personal sheet. Blast!) I can guess, though, that a dispute three hours into the session wouldn't go over well. (No, really! I do have a staff of power!)Chriskaballa
First Post
In response:
1) To reapersaurus: I am 14 years old, and my players are 15, 15, and 17. My authority is probably already being sapped by this fact. We're all good friends, and I trust them enough not to screw with the character sheets. I'm observant enough (IMHO)to notice if any changes do occur from session to session. We're all pretty much geeks, spending WAY too much time studying and/or playing computer games.
2) We're all Diablo 2 addicts. This may be a problem as the players may seek only to kill, loot, and move on. They may be playing to make this another form of Diablo 2. I'm playing to get away from it.
3) My inexperience even at these levels is rooted in one shocking fact.
I've never played in any campaign that lasted more than a month or went over 2nd level.
[plug]Of course, any people who play via IRC or the like, I'm up for grabs on a Sunday game...[/plug]
So there you have it.
~Chris
P.S. Oh, [censored], I forgot the [censored] character sheets. [Censored] it all to heck....
1) To reapersaurus: I am 14 years old, and my players are 15, 15, and 17. My authority is probably already being sapped by this fact. We're all good friends, and I trust them enough not to screw with the character sheets. I'm observant enough (IMHO)to notice if any changes do occur from session to session. We're all pretty much geeks, spending WAY too much time studying and/or playing computer games.
2) We're all Diablo 2 addicts. This may be a problem as the players may seek only to kill, loot, and move on. They may be playing to make this another form of Diablo 2. I'm playing to get away from it.
3) My inexperience even at these levels is rooted in one shocking fact.
I've never played in any campaign that lasted more than a month or went over 2nd level.
[plug]Of course, any people who play via IRC or the like, I'm up for grabs on a Sunday game...[/plug]
So there you have it.
~Chris
P.S. Oh, [censored], I forgot the [censored] character sheets. [Censored] it all to heck....
Anabstercorian
First Post
I'd throw a few very noticeable and powerful NPC groups that have distinct personalities. Not full parties - Just foils for the party, small, tight clusters of ne'er-do-wells that work together with confidence and trust. Some ideas.
The Gemini Triad - Three Devoted Defenders, each of whom takes another as his charge at the beginning of the battle.
The Alchemist and his Lackeys - A strange and powerful wizard who fights using several pistols, supported his many halfling lackeys throwing Acid, Alchemists Fire, Thunderstones, and Foottrapper readily.
The Invincible Warrior - A massive, silent figure in full plate that covers his entire body will frighten the players greatly when he takes unimaginable damage without slowing down. Of course, under that full body armor he's a troll fighter.
The Shadow and the Flame - A strange and disturbing Fire Elemental. The shadows that are cast by his light occasionally animate in to undead shades and attack his opponents, vanishing when they slay those who created them.
Eater of Minds - An Illithid Ghost who manifest directly behind his victims, immediately attempting to devour the essence of their mind.
If you do something like this, be sure to play up the defining aspects of the fight - Make it memorable, and don't be afraid to increase a creatures hit dice to make it more challenging. Don't nerf the players, give them something that'll scare the out of them!
The Gemini Triad - Three Devoted Defenders, each of whom takes another as his charge at the beginning of the battle.
The Alchemist and his Lackeys - A strange and powerful wizard who fights using several pistols, supported his many halfling lackeys throwing Acid, Alchemists Fire, Thunderstones, and Foottrapper readily.
The Invincible Warrior - A massive, silent figure in full plate that covers his entire body will frighten the players greatly when he takes unimaginable damage without slowing down. Of course, under that full body armor he's a troll fighter.
The Shadow and the Flame - A strange and disturbing Fire Elemental. The shadows that are cast by his light occasionally animate in to undead shades and attack his opponents, vanishing when they slay those who created them.
Eater of Minds - An Illithid Ghost who manifest directly behind his victims, immediately attempting to devour the essence of their mind.
If you do something like this, be sure to play up the defining aspects of the fight - Make it memorable, and don't be afraid to increase a creatures hit dice to make it more challenging. Don't nerf the players, give them something that'll scare the
out of them!
DarkJester
First Post
I'm 15, I dm in a group of 7 players...... its crazy. The age ranges from 13 to 16...15 being the mean. Were all good friends,and I trust them all,but if they won't let me see their character sheet their not playing. Its not that I don't trust them,but errors can be made. I use to not check when we first started playing. I thought something was up when the sorcerer (level 5) Had a vast inventory of spells at his disposal, he mistakingly thought that sorcerer spells known added up,instead of being a total. Thats just one point,when the players are inexperienced anything can happen, even if you do trust them, you still better look at those sheets.
If your not to familiar with the rules, take a moment to read over the combat section of the PHB. Find some combat examples. Of course, if you have any direct questions just come here and ask. Loads of helpful folk around here.
If your not to familiar with the rules, take a moment to read over the combat section of the PHB. Find some combat examples. Of course, if you have any direct questions just come here and ask.
Loads of helpful folk around here.
Glyfair
Explorer
Although I've been somewhat lax in this, my campaign rule is that I have a copy of the character sheet. I don't need to have their copy, I just want a copy of my own.
I would be annoyed at a GM who always insisted on having my character sheet. I like to look over my sheet between sessions and think of strategies, remind myself of little used abilities/items, etc. However, their should be no problem with such players having two copies, one for themselves, one for the GM.
Sure such sheets might be a session out-of-date, but I can remember any such changes that happen between sessions. Only when players gain a level do I want one after a session.
Glyfair of Glamis
I would be annoyed at a GM who always insisted on having my character sheet. I like to look over my sheet between sessions and think of strategies, remind myself of little used abilities/items, etc. However, their should be no problem with such players having two copies, one for themselves, one for the GM.
Sure such sheets might be a session out-of-date, but I can remember any such changes that happen between sessions. Only when players gain a level do I want one after a session.
Glyfair of Glamis
gregweller
First Post
Here's the solution in three easy steps:
1. Get the character sheets.
2. Staple them together and write 'menu' on the first page.
3. Summon Cthulhu.
1. Get the character sheets.
2. Staple them together and write 'menu' on the first page.
3. Summon Cthulhu.
Anabstercorian said:I'd throw a few very noticeable and powerful NPC groups that have distinct personalities. Not full parties - Just foils for the party, small, tight clusters of ne'er-do-wells that work together with confidence and trust. Some ideas.
The Gemini Triad - Three Devoted Defenders, each of whom takes another as his charge at the beginning of the battle.
The Alchemist and his Lackeys - A strange and powerful wizard who fights using several pistols, supported his many halfling lackeys throwing Acid, Alchemists Fire, Thunderstones, and Foottrapper readily.
The Invincible Warrior - A massive, silent figure in full plate that covers his entire body will frighten the players greatly when he takes unimaginable damage without slowing down. Of course, under that full body armor he's a troll fighter.
The Shadow and the Flame - A strange and disturbing Fire Elemental. The shadows that are cast by his light occasionally animate in to undead shades and attack his opponents, vanishing when they slay those who created them.
Eater of Minds - An Illithid Ghost who manifest directly behind his victims, immediately attempting to devour the essence of their mind.
If you do something like this, be sure to play up the defining aspects of the fight - Make it memorable, and don't be afraid to increase a creatures hit dice to make it more challenging. Don't nerf the players, give them something that'll scare the
Cool Ideas!
My suggestions, a party of 6 NPC's 7th or so level will do.
Make them 5 fighter/ rouges 4/3 with basic magic weapons and armor
A wizard with a hawk familiar plenty of scrolls and a good wand of Monster Summon 4.
and an evil cleric 7th or so domain should include travel and trickery
The trick is to ambush the party and use plenty of buff spells
Bull Strength, Invisibility, Cats Grace, True Strike, Haste
Have the wizard fly invisibly above the battle field summon a few Dire Apes or Arrowhawks. He is the sniper and should use magic missles flame arrow and that sort of thing. He needs to keep moving.
The fighters, carefully spaced and invisible or hidden each equiped with a potion of true strike and heavy crossbows with 4 or so magic arrows +1 sure striking that are envenomed. This will negate protection from missles.
In meele they will use spiked chains and the summoned critters will flank.
take down the mage and the cleric first. Keep moving.
The cleric. He will buff and heal as well as summon nastys to fight . He needs to stay static though. Basically he is a charging station.
Its not perfect but if the players aren't used to it. Well they will be in a world of hurt. Oh and one more thing.
Get the character sheets. All players are obligated to give the DM a copy of the character sheet. This is a must.
Hope this helps
