Can't touch the PCs! What's a DM to Do?

[Chriskaballa]

Okay, I'll give you a quick-and-dirty rundown.

Party of six 6th level characters: human sorc, human cleric, human druid, human fighter, elven rogue, and dwarven monk/psion.

I CANNOT touch them.

I have not inflicted a *single* point of damage on them that has lasted more than a minute since they hit fifth level, with the exception of a poison.

They get injured (god forbid something hits them and deals damage before they annihilate it!) and out come the CLW potions. I poison them, out come the neutralizer potions. I challenge them with a physically strong enemy, they get the jump with their good initiatve bonuses, find some way to get a surprise round, and hack it to death on the first or second round. I challenge them with a spellcaster and their minions, they just hack it faster. I challenge them with a trap, their saves prevent them from harm and if they take damage they cure it up immediately.

I need a challenge, a situation, or a creature that will be able to get the jump on the PCs and hack them apart the way ther PCs are doing to my creatures.

Any suggestions?

~Chris

 

[Carnifex]

Some more details, like their magic items and how wealthy they are, would be useful in aiding your cause

 

[Tsyr]

Lots of enemies who are invisible at the start of combat, all with items that have a charge or three of True Strike.

 

[Chriskaballa]

Carnifex: Unfortunately, one player takes home all the character sheets after sessions. He is really possessive about this, so I cant', say, take home the sheets and look them over or custom-tailor encounters for them. I will try to do so today, though.

~Chris

 

[Henrix]

And how are their stats? about how many points would they cost?

My guess is that you are trying to fight them with EL 6, or thereabout, encounters.
But the CR/EL's are given for a party of four adventurers with 25pt (or rather standard array) stats.

Try using monsters with CR 8 or 9, or perhaps even a total EL of 11.

 

[Carnifex]

You really should insist that *you* take the sheets, or at least try and remember then as best you can - it'll help when setting up encounters, a *lot*.

 

[Geron Raveneye]

Uhm...

...you know, you´re the DM. If they overuse CLW or NP potions, make them more rare as a consequence..or more expensive. Have the merchants/priests notice that this group buys a lot of them, and have them raise the prices.

Furthermore, in combat...you are the final judge on surprise. Don´t let your group talk a surprise out of you too often. Sometimes it´s just no surprise, period. Or, more easy...let the opponents have a surprise round sometimes.

If they survive every trap...check their dice rolls. Raise the DCs slightly and check them again. Do so until they fail their saves now and then. If they aren´t fudging their rolls, you have found a comfortable level of DCs. Usually dice rolls should be a matter of probability, but in real life some dice are cut badly and prefer a range of numbers when they fall.

If everything else fails...let them have an encounter (or adventure) where they meet their own evil mirror images. Let them get a taste of their own strengths and weaknesses. it´s a real challenge to overcome yourself..and can be pretty rewarding in the end.

Just...don´t do anything just to "get back" at your group. Try to regulate the gameplay a bit...nothing more. Everything else will curb too much fun.

 

[loki87]

OK, you're the Dungeon MASTER, remember? If you ask to see their character sheets, they'd better damn well show you the sheets.

You're also the person that has given them all their items, like the Neutralize Poison potions and such, correct? If not, how did they get these items. If they just buy them in the magic shop, you could always have things "Out of Stock." They should NEVER have an item that you don't know about or don't want them to have.

At the end of the day, if as the DM, you want to challenge the PCs and can't, this is entirely your fault. You've either let them walk all over you or you've never laid down the guidelines of how they're going to have to play in your game. Start laying down the law now, and hopefully you can still salvage this campaign.

And if all else fails, send in a Dragon to clean up the mess, and start a new adventure.

 

[Wolfspider]

I just have to reiterate what others have been saying. As the DM, you have the right to see the character sheets whenever you want to. You have an obligation to do this frequently to make sure they aren't making secret changes or additions, and to make sure that you're properly designing adventures to suite their needs and abilities. If they don't want to hand over their personal copies to you, have them make photocopies and give those to you.

And if all else fails, send in a Dragon to clean up the mess, and start a new adventure.

I like the way you think.

 

[DWARF]

Well the way I'd work it is this...

You tell them that you're taking the sheets after the session. If they don't like that, they can leave the game.

The way I run my games, if I demand something it will happen. If players have a problem with how I run things, then we talk about it. If they don't like it, they can leave. The game I run is my game. I'm buying modules, I'm planning enoers, I'm doing tons of work behind the scenes to keep things running, and my players are pretty good about letting themselves be railroaded to make a good story.

Ultimately, you have to remember that it is your game and what you need to do to run it the way you want should get done. If you have a problem player, let him know that you won't put up with it. If he doesn't like it, let him run a game.