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Casting Cleric

GakToid

Explorer
First, a big thank you to everyone that contributed to the "Combat Cleric" thread.

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=74603

Which leads me to start this one...

What's the opposite choice? Is making a casting cleric as simple as maximizing your wisdom? What school(s) (if any) should you take Spell Focus in?

Is the difference between starting with a 14 wisdom (combat cleric) and an 18 wisdom (casting cleric) significant? Or does the 'casting cleric' simply not exist?

-Gak Toid
 

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GakToid said:
First, a big thank you to everyone that contributed to the "Combat Cleric" thread.

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=74603

Which leads me to start this one...

What's the opposite choice? Is making a casting cleric as simple as maximizing your wisdom? What school(s) (if any) should you take Spell Focus in?

Is the difference between starting with a 14 wisdom (combat cleric) and an 18 wisdom (casting cleric) significant? Or does the 'casting cleric' simply not exist?

-Gak Toid
Casting Cleric

Human cleric of Mystra 7/Contemplative 1/Thaumaturgist 3.
3 domains: Spells, Magic, Rune.

  • You are now a pretty good summoner (< a druid however)
  • The magic domain gives you access to Wizard magic items
  • Rune domain for free scribe scroll
  • Spells for Anyspell and Greater Anyspell
All this amounts to - kind of ;)- a multiclassed cleric/wizard... without the power drain.


YMMV... Just one way to go... And I'm not saying it's the only way.

Mike
 

They do exist.

You build him a little like a wizard:

  • No (or only light) armor, so you have more mobility.
  • Higher value on Wis, also Cha (for turning, which is sort of casting)
  • Lower values on Str and Con
  • No combat-related feats (like power attack)
  • Metamagic feats and other magic-related feats (Augmented Summoning, Spell Focus, Spell Penetration)
  • Magic Items that help you inprove your casting. So you won't have a big big magic weapon with a lot of plusses, and the armor won't be that powerful, either (and you probably won't use up spell slots to cast magic vestment or greater magic weapon on them), but will have things like wands, scrolls, staffs, and metamagic rods.
 

KaeYoss said:
They do exist.

You build him a little like a wizard:
Sorry this is off topic, but this just made me think of the thread "high level fighter versus high level barbarian" where a fighter and a barbarian are fighting one on one. Who would win between a Wizard and a Casting Cleric?

I would guess Wizard because they excel at offensive spells... however the cleric has a few good ones too with better healing and more HP's. Actually the more I think about it the more I dislike the idea because the wizard's biggest strength is against enemy masses... not single opponents. Sorry I interrupted the thread.
 

20th level, access to teh full range of WOTC books?

Who wins is purely a matter of initiative. If the Cleric gets up the spell "divine retribution" (from Dragonlance Campaign Setting), and names the right elemental energy type -- the Wizard is toast. That spell rebounds all damage ot the given type ... but changes it to Sacred (or Profane) damage, so energy resistances are no help.
 

I remember an old 3.0 version of a casting cleric versus a wizard. Enervation or Evard's carry the day for the wizard, not blaster spells. The wizard's variety of attacks provides a big advantage. In most cases, the wizard is going to have the initiative, so he's got the advantage. Of course, both clerics and wizards get Energy Drain, so things even up at higher levels (but clerics still have a pretty small list of level 9 spells).
 

Pax said:
20th level, access to teh full range of WOTC books?

Who wins is purely a matter of initiative. If the Cleric gets up the spell "divine retribution" (from Dragonlance Campaign Setting), and names the right elemental energy type -- the Wizard is toast. That spell rebounds all damage ot the given type ... but changes it to Sacred (or Profane) damage, so energy resistances are no help.

As I recall, it didn't help Ezrael out much. :)

On topic: I would suggest not sacrificing in the armor department. A casting cleric will never have the offensive capability of a wizard, so he has to make up for it by living longer. Death Ward, Freedom of Movement, Armor (and Magic Vestments), a shield (and magic vestments), Bear's Heart, Heal, etc. will all help to ensure that he lives longer than the wizard, and his generally weaker offensive spells will be able to catch up in the damage department.

The cleric also has devestating attack spells in the form of Blasphemy, Holy Word, et. al. Any spell that says "you die, no save" is a must to have around. Focus on upping your caster level once you get high enough to cast these, as they are currently the most broken core cleric spells available IMO. Perhaps some friendly person with search capabilities will point you towards the thread that discussed caster level increases.
 

James McMurray said:
As I recall, it didn't help Ezrael out much. :)

Yeah, but Ezrael was more of a summoner than a pure spellcaster -- and it did shut down your primary attack strategy of the time (lots of [force]-damage spells).
 

My experience with a casting focussed cleric is that strategies differ vastly between 3.0 and 3.5.

In either case, the cleric will focus on wisdom over strength and dexterity. He can afford a lower con but probably doesn't want to. He will probably want a to place a good stat in charisma for turning and intelligence for skills. So, while the combat cleric prioritizes wisdom (slightly more than) strength and constitution and avoids a dex penalty, the casting cleric prioritizes wisdom dramatically more than anything else, values constitution, int and charisma about equally, and can live without dex or strength.

For feats, the 3.0 cleric wanted spell focus and greater spell focus enchantment (Random Action, Calm Emotions, Command, Hold Person, Greater Command, chained hold person), Necromancy (Inflicts, cause fear, slay living, destruction, implosion), or Evocation (Flame Strike, Sound Burst, Blade Barrier, Firestorm, Fire Seeds, etc) the 3.5 casting cleric probably wants necromancy (Blindness/Deafness is added in) or Evocation (if he has an appropriate elemental domain like fire (burning hands, etc), water (cone of cold, ice storm, etc), air (chain lightning), or Sun (Fire Seeds, Flamestrike)). The 3.5 casting cleric might also try to crowd in on the Druid's schtick with Spell Focus: Conjuration and Augment Summoning (best done with a neutral cleric so you can summon everything on the list).

Other feats that are of interest to the casting cleric: craft wondrous item, craft wand, scribe scroll, reach spell, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Improved Initiative, chain spell, Great Fortitude, etc.

Domains: Elemental domains are good (and double by adding elemental turning if you've a good charisma). Alignment domains are surprisingly good with Holy Smite, Blade Barrier, etc leading the way. The magic domain is attractive for item creators and the ability to use fireball or haste (esp in 3.0) off of a scroll. If you use Arcanis domains, the afterlife domain is quite good since Spectral Hand enables you to deliver inflicts at range. Domains like war destruction and strength are still viable (War gets the power word spells and strength gets the Bigby's hand spells) but aren't nearly as attractive as they are for combat clerics.

Equipment: You may still want to wear fullplate (unless your strength means that it would put you at a medium or heavy load) but it's not essential. A chain shirt is fine for most tasks and my Living Arcanis cohort has done just fine in leather armor (with a strength of 8, there's only so much you can carry). You might want to carry a longspear so that you can help out the rest of the party in a pinch and/or can threaten foes while casting your spells. You might also want to have a buckler so you can add to your AC when you're not attacking. You'll want to focus your attention on things like strands of prayer beads, pearls of power, scrolls, periapts of wisdom, phylacteries of faithfulness and undead turning however rather than on getting the meanest magic weapon and the best shield you can afford.

Spells: This will largely depend upon your domains but standouts are:
1. Shield of faith (at mid levels), protection from evil (at low levels), bless, cause fear (at low levels), Random Action (in 3.0).
2. Bull's Strength, etc (in 3.0), Hold Person (in 3.0), Calm Emotions (in 3.0), Spiritual Weapon (in 3.5), Resist Energy (in 3.5), Aid (in 3.5)
3. Magic Circle v. Evil, Summon Monster III, Prayer, Searing Light (at level 6+ and against undead), Blindness/Deafness, Dispel Magic.
4. Freedom of Movement (in 3.5), Death Ward, Holy Smite.
 

Awhile back I played a mostly caster cleric. I had Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus in Necromancy and used the Inflict Wounds spells as my main attacks. Once I got high enough level I took Heirophant and took Divine Reach to cast the spells from range.
 

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