D&D 3E/3.5 Casting Defensivly - 3.5 rules

[rushlight]

I'd be leaning towards more of the Reflex save mechanic then the BAB... seems more in line that a quick person would be better at reacting to a caster then the hill giant... YMMV

Mike

I suppose I was looking at it from a perspective of "How good is the bad guy with his big stick/claws/axe/whatever". The difficulty of the DC comes from the strength of the encounter. The ability to overcome the DC comes from the player, in the form of his skill and stats.

Guys who are good at wacking you will distract you more than little goblins who can't really hit the ground with a rock.

At least, that's what I figured!

 

[Scion]

The only problem is that to-hit bonuses tend to go up much faster than the defensive caster can even hope to keep up with.

+40 to hit? that means that I need to get a 49. 10 from the roll, 23 ranks, +8 con (could happen), combat casting, skill focus (concentration).. and I am still one point down!

I'm sure there are better and worse ways to do it, personally I have no problem with it being very easy so long as the resources are spent. After all, they are resources, and pretty limited at that. Especially if you are throwing in the 'need' for one or two feats just to have a chance.

 

[youspoonybard]

I houseruled the "Add +2 DC for difficult situations" to be applicable here.

Every other character that threatens you adds a +2 to the DC. Like tumble, except I only use 1 check for the lot (so 5 creatures threatening a caster trying a 6th level spell would be 15 + (5-1)(2) + 6 = DC 29...hard, but the caster can move, etc to lower it.

I think it would be harder for a spellcaster to keep an eye on 5 people than 1.

 

[Grayhawk]

This is my current house rule:

'Casting Defensively: DC 10 + spell level + ref save of threatening creature'

This way, it's easier than the standard DC 15 + spell level to cast deffensively when opposed by someone with slow reflexes, but harder against faster foes.

So casting a 1st level spell defensively while threatened by an Orc is only DC 11, but against a Winter Wolf it's DC 17.

(Since casting defensively hasn't really come up that much in my current campaign, I'm considering going back to the core rule for the simplicity of it.)

 

[billd91]

Personally, I don't see why the DC for casting defensively should scale to the difficulty of the encounter based on the BAB or ref save or whatever of the monster. The ability to cast defensively, as I see, only has to do with the difficulty of the spell and the ability of the caster to concentrate while still keeping an eye on the events around him. I can see giving the standard +2 DC for especially difficult conditions, like being overrun by a horde of attackers or maybe even being flanked by multiple attackers.
I fail to see why it would be more difficult to avoid dropping your guard when casting against a high level single opponent than it would be when opposed by a lower level single opponent. It's about the caster keeping his guard up while doing something that requires concentration and that seems largely independent on the relative power and ability of the opponent.

 

[Meeki]

After 9th level a wizard should be able to cast defensivly almost any spell no problem, after all he is 9th level. He has had plenty of practice casting spells. If we want to get into all this bs on adding base attack or reflex saves or w/e just remember that the game is played in 5ftx5ft boxes so the wizard just stands at the back of the 5ftx5ft box and therefore casts a defensively and has to make the conc DC of 15+spell level because he is backing up within his own square to avoid reach of another creature. I dont see how any sort of BAB or Reflex would factor into it. Also on the reflex save under no circumstance should you ever add another creatures saves to the difficulty of a skill like some people are suggestion that just makes little to no sense since a save is suppose to be variable. Just adding the save to an opponents skill check defeats the variability of the save itself. Maybe make the monster make a reflex save + spell level against conc check of the wizard or something to that effect.

 

[mikebr99]

I believe this all orginates from when the Reactive Counterspell Feat came out... which allowed Spellcasters to counterspell without first readying, at the expense of a later reduced action... And the fact that fighter types have no way of matching this kind of reaction speed... there has never been a Reactive Spellcaster Whacking feat. KR??? <insert feat>


but I digress... YMMV


Mike

 

[Count Arioch the 28t]

I think that eveyone is ignoring the biggest point of all!

If you are a 9th level wizard, and you are in melee range with something around your CR, then you are screwed. You better defensively cast something that allows you to get the hell away, because you're probably dead next round, if that big thing goes full attack on you.

The reason why it's so easy for higher level wizards to cast defensively is basically a booby prize. If you are in a situation where you need to cast defensively, if you don't cast a spell that gets you the hell away from that situation, you're dead. No ifs, ands, or buts.

 

[mikebr99]

I think that eveyone is ignoring the biggest point of all!

If you are a 9th level wizard, and you are in melee range with something around your CR, then you are screwed. You better defensively cast something that allows you to get the hell away, because you're probably dead next round, if that big thing goes full attack on you.

The reason why it's so easy for higher level wizards to cast defensively is basically a booby prize. If you are in a situation where you need to cast defensively, if you don't cast a spell that gets you the hell away from that situation, you're dead. No ifs, ands, or buts.

That a wide sweeping generality don't you think?? I don't see why a properly buffed, w/ defensive spells up... Wizard couldn't last in melee combat for a while.
YMMV

Mike

 

[Scion]

Well there is a feat that disallows spellcasters to cast defensively in an area you threaten. But, imo, this is vastly overpowered. I changed it to give a bonus to the dc of casting defensively, currently it is the BAB of the person with the feat. This may still be too powerful though, I may just change it to a flat +10.

Changeing such vital things from 'trivial' to 'impossible' with just one feat is a bit.. well.. bad Especially since monsters can have threat ranges of over 100' (given proper circumstances and specific monsters).