-
NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.
D&D 3E/3.5 Casting Defensivly - 3.5 rules
- Thread starter Elocin
- Start date
Hardhead
Explorer
You may be happy to know that Persistent Spell is going to be in the Player's Guide to Faerun.... but now it's going to be +6 levels. That should make it hard to abuse!
Anyway, we see a lot of maxing of Concentration in our group, for two reasons. First, we have a house rule: "if you begin your turn threatened, take a 5' step, and do anything that would provoke an AoO, you still provoke the AoO from those that threatened you before you took the 5' step." The in-game reasoning is that they're doing their action while they take the step, and the out-of-game reason is, whe hate how casters can step back and cast a spell, or archers take a 5' step back and loose a volley of arrows without any worries.
The other reason is, bad guys are smart enough to grapple spellcasters. Everyone knows that they can't cast in a grapple, so being able to hit that DC 20+spell level required for casting in a grapple is important (escaping the grapple with Dimension Door is popular).
One thing that helps, however, is we have psionics, and the item Third Eye of Concentration is very handy. In the PsiHB, it's listed as a +10 bonus for 2,000 gp, but we've repriced it using the 3.5 rules. Still, at 2500, a +5 bonus is *very* nice, and has become a much sought-after item.
IMo bab of attacker and such have no impact on the dc for the chek and no relevence.
Whether or not you get an AoO is not an issue of BAB. A +15 to hit guy has as much chance to get an AoO as a -4 to hit guy. They both get them if and only if the enemy drops his guard. Their skill and prowess and technique and gruesome visage have nothing whatsoever to do with it. Their skill prowes etc do not provoke aoos.
When casting on the defensive, the mage has already decided to not concentrate on the spell enough to cause any guard dropping. Regardles of the roll, or his skill at concentration, or any other factor at all... their is no AoO. Their is no opening for an extra attack. their is no swing for bab to matter.
All that remains is... "can i get this spell off without the concentration and distraction i would normally use?"
Low level casters, they have a tough time meeting that dc15+spell. Midlevel casters get easier and higher than that its a given... IF the caster spent enough skills to max the concentration skill.
that doesn't seem wrong to me in the slightest.
Think of it this way...
low level casters are very distracted by casting spells. It is a touygh mental task for them and they lose focus on other events.
for those casters who decide to work at it, spending their time on "casting prowess" (concentration) instead of knowledge undead and knowledge arcanum and alchemy, they can cut down this distraction and by enem lower high levels get to the point that casting a spell is instinctive and not really a distraction at all. of course, their comrades who did not focus their studies this way have other areas of knowledge that the now instinctive caster lacks.
This doesn't feel wrong to me.
Its kind of the skill equivalent of one caster spending feats on spell focus and craft while another spends on silent spell and still spell...
Whether or not you get an AoO is not an issue of BAB. A +15 to hit guy has as much chance to get an AoO as a -4 to hit guy. They both get them if and only if the enemy drops his guard. Their skill and prowess and technique and gruesome visage have nothing whatsoever to do with it. Their skill prowes etc do not provoke aoos.
When casting on the defensive, the mage has already decided to not concentrate on the spell enough to cause any guard dropping. Regardles of the roll, or his skill at concentration, or any other factor at all... their is no AoO. Their is no opening for an extra attack. their is no swing for bab to matter.
All that remains is... "can i get this spell off without the concentration and distraction i would normally use?"
Low level casters, they have a tough time meeting that dc15+spell. Midlevel casters get easier and higher than that its a given... IF the caster spent enough skills to max the concentration skill.
that doesn't seem wrong to me in the slightest.
Think of it this way...
low level casters are very distracted by casting spells. It is a touygh mental task for them and they lose focus on other events.
for those casters who decide to work at it, spending their time on "casting prowess" (concentration) instead of knowledge undead and knowledge arcanum and alchemy, they can cut down this distraction and by enem lower high levels get to the point that casting a spell is instinctive and not really a distraction at all. of course, their comrades who did not focus their studies this way have other areas of knowledge that the now instinctive caster lacks.
This doesn't feel wrong to me.
Its kind of the skill equivalent of one caster spending feats on spell focus and craft while another spends on silent spell and still spell...
Henry
Autoexreginated
Answer me this: WHY should it be harder for a caster to cast defensively based on who's standing close?
To me, defensive cast is an action that high-level casters should be able to do with ease; it's a skill they should grow into , but should not have to contest once they get it. The build of the gnome caster with the high con, the right feats, etc. is an extreme case, and one that doesn't always apply. When it does, it's still balanced, as the player spent a large portion of his resources to make the def-casting monster. (What player is going to take an 18 on a gnome wizard under normal circumstances and put it into his constitution instead of Intelligence?)
To contrast this, would you raise the DC for a ride check to vault onto a saddle in a calm open field just because you want it to be just as tough to the 15th level PC as when he was 1st level? After a certain point, some actions should become easy to a professional, and a professional spellcaster should have to think no harder about using his trade than a fighter getting his multiple attacks. A successful check doesn't mean he's avoiding an AoO, it means he's learned to divide his concentration successfully.
A high-level caster has plenty of other threats to worry about than an AoO. Even in the case of the Gnome wizard with the right feats, anyone who wants to stop him from casting can ready an action just like before.
That's why I don't see a problem with the caster getting good at it, and staying that way.
To me, defensive cast is an action that high-level casters should be able to do with ease; it's a skill they should grow into , but should not have to contest once they get it. The build of the gnome caster with the high con, the right feats, etc. is an extreme case, and one that doesn't always apply. When it does, it's still balanced, as the player spent a large portion of his resources to make the def-casting monster. (What player is going to take an 18 on a gnome wizard under normal circumstances and put it into his constitution instead of Intelligence?)
To contrast this, would you raise the DC for a ride check to vault onto a saddle in a calm open field just because you want it to be just as tough to the 15th level PC as when he was 1st level? After a certain point, some actions should become easy to a professional, and a professional spellcaster should have to think no harder about using his trade than a fighter getting his multiple attacks. A successful check doesn't mean he's avoiding an AoO, it means he's learned to divide his concentration successfully.
A high-level caster has plenty of other threats to worry about than an AoO. Even in the case of the Gnome wizard with the right feats, anyone who wants to stop him from casting can ready an action just like before.
That's why I don't see a problem with the caster getting good at it, and staying that way.
Count Arioch the 28t
First Post
mikebr99 said:
My bad, I meant +25. Sorry.
Henry said:
Well there is that one feat, so I suppose it is possible to have training to look for just that right speck of opening.. hence the extra hard dc
So with special training I suppose that some opponents could find the weak link in your defensive casting. That much at least makes sense. But I definately like it being a feat rather than just something everyone can do.Similar Threads
