Casual Player, Casual Roleplaying, Sucking the Wonder Away

[Herzog]

Couldn't keep out of the discussion....


If a player thinks her character is a famous, and the DM disagrees, then the character is NOT famous.
The player controls the character, the DM controls the world and the NPC's in it. If the DM thinks the NPC's have never heard of this character, then they haven't. Some ridiculing might come along, but don't overdo it. Simply repeating 'no, we haven't heard of you.' should do the trick.

That said, if a player continues to play a character in a way that is inconsistent with the campaign world, it is time to take the conversation out of the game.
Explain that your views differ, and the way her character is acting is likely to cause NPC's to react to her with disdain instead of awe.
Explain that if she wants her character to be famous, she should work on that in the game, and that, given the rest of her background, that could cause repercussions.

If that doesn't help, you might have to be more blunt.
Me, I'm thinking of statements like: ' No, your character is not famous. If she keeps acting like she is, she might end up in the nuthouse!'

Again, the DM controls the world. Although the game-impact of a 'famous' character is less obvious, essentially it is simmilar to a character saying: ' My character inherited this sword from his great-grandfather. It does 36d12 damage.' If the DM disagrees, he may continue saying that, or acting like it (in character), but the NPC reactions (and actual amount of damage he does with the sword) should be obvious.

Herzog

 

[delericho]

As a note, she is relatively new to D&D, and is still fuzzy on a lot of the rules...

She also likes to be the best at what she does. I mean, most players like their characters to be effective, and those of us with more D&D experience help her tweak her character to be as bad-ass as is legally allowed (because some of us are powergamers, and she is relatively new to the game), but she seems to focus on these mechanics in-game, and her roleplaying suffers. Or, alternately, she tries to lean too heavily on her roleplaying to the detriment of her mechanics. It's the roleplaying, more than anything else, that concerns me.

You'll always get the type of players that your game rewards. So, in a group of power-gamers, any new player who joins will become a power-gamer in short order, almost inevitably. Also, if the rest of the group constantly help her with the mechanics, she'll never bother to learn the detail of the rules, so you'll always find her to be "still fuzzy on a lot of the rules".

My suggestions here are twofold: Firstly, cut back on the importance of the rules in your game. Or, to put it another way, ease back on the power-gaming. Secondly, reduce the amount of help she gets. If she wants her character to be the best it possibly can be, to the point of super-optimisation, then make her do that. Agree that you'll take her so far (to a decent/competitive character), but no further.

She's also a huge reader of fantasy and sci-fi. She and I share similar tastes in books, and she's borrowed several of mine in the past. Also, when asked, she's come up with interesting and engaging character backgrounds. Her immersion in the fantasy world isn't the problem either.

What she has is no sense of wonder. All of her characters, from her epic-level fighter to her first level bard, are blase about everything. Even the most mind-blowing possible descriptions of world-shaking events are met with a "Huh... wow. Ok, that was cool. What did we find for treasure?" Not to toot my own horn, but the other players in the group were suitably awed (or, more fairly, their characters were) by said descriptions.

Question: are you absolutely certain that your descriptions are actually as good as you think they are? If she's widely-read in fantasy and your other players are not to the same extent, then the bar may simply be set that much higher for her. It's the whole "been there, done that" problem.

One other possibility: stop trying to impress her, and just get on with playing the game. Just pretend her character is faking being unimpressed for whatever reasons, if it makes you feel better.

The current campaign I am running required everyone to have a reason to run and hide in a big city (Sharn, in the Eberron setting). She's playing a 1st level bard/researcher that ran away from a powerful and abusive husband who's still searching for her. However, whenever we've met an NPC, she always says, "Surely you've heard of me!" because her character sings at a reasonably well-known inn. With any other character, any other player, I could just say her character was just having happy delusions of grandure with naivty of youth.

But no, the player really seems to believe her character should be famous. Granted, we're playing in Eberron, where there aren't a boatload of high-level NPCs, and a relatively low-level character could be famous. And she's had the rolls to start to raise her character to greater venues (and fame) than she's had. However, she's still in hiding. The last thing she should want to do is become famous! Yet she's blase about the whole thing.

This sounds like an ideal opportunity for you to meet her halfway. Allow her character to be famous (or, better still, allow her character to become famous as the campaign progresses). Of course, also allow her character to suffer the consequences of this, in the form of that abusive husband, stalkers, wannabes, fading glory, public scandal, and the like.

It doesn't strike me as very fair of you to complain that she's not roleplaying well, if the biggest roleplaying idea you are citing has been summarily shot down. Again, you'll get the types of players that your campaign encourages.

When it comes to XP, I do doll out roleplaying XP, and she pretty much always gets the short end of the stick there. However, I do it in private, on separate pieces of paper, because I find that more fair. When she does attempt to emote, I try to praise her for that.

My #1 suggestion here would be to stop giving out roleplaying XP. Roleplaying is its own reward. Besides, ask 100 players how they define "good roleplaying", and you'll get at least 100 answers, some of them mutually contradictory. Plus, individual XP awards, just mean that the people who are getting the lesser rewards can contribute less to the game in the future, meaning that they'll fall further behind, and create yet more problems for you.

If, however, you are certain that you are give out individual roleplaying awards, then my #2 suggestion will be don't do so in private. If you want to encourage roleplay of a certain style by rewarding that style, then the people involved need to know that their chosen style is not being rewarded, or they will never have the opportunity to change.

All the rest of your problems strike me as communication issues. I recommend having a quick chat with the player about what she wants from the game, where she sees her character going, and that sort of thing.

 

[Spell]

My #1 suggestion here would be to stop giving out roleplaying XP.

to me, this is a bit like saying: "since you like your job, we'll stop paying you..."

 

[SFman]

I would advocate gentle persuasion in the game (subtle hints about her fame reaching her ex) combined with out of game advice on how ability checks are run in your game. With everyone on here telling you to bend over backwards for the player, I'd like to say that the DM is the one running the world for the players - he or she has control of the mechanics of the game...

 

[Spell]

With everyone on here telling you to bend over backwards for the player

i certainly didn't say that! the DM is ALWAYS right!

 

[shilsen]

to me, this is a bit like saying: "since you like your job, we'll stop paying you..."

And to me that is like saying "Don't grade your players' roleplaying abilities." I don't, since I get enough grading to do in my day job, so I don't award RPing XP. Of course, I don't award XP for anything done in-game either.

 

[Mallus]

With everyone on here telling you to bend over backwards for the player, I'd like to say that the DM is the one running the world for the players...

No one here is questioning DM authority. They're questioning the use of DM authority in this specific case. Allowing a low-level character to be a celebrity in Sharn does not constitute 'bending over backwards' for a player. It's simply helping them play the PC they want to play.

The player isn't asking to begin play with an artifact or a fortune in gold. They're asking for a little notoriety. What could possibly be wrong with that?

 

[delericho]

to me, this is a bit like saying: "since you like your job, we'll stop paying you..."

In my experience, the players who roleplay more/better tend to find themselves more readily placed at the centre of the DM's plots, interacting more readily with the NPCs, and generally getting more out of the game than those who do not. Under those circumstances, it's not necessary to add a further reward in the form of XP. And, indeed, giving an XP incentive actually hurts the game as a whole, because it enables those same players to grab even more of the spotlight (by virtue of having more powerful characters), effectively driving those who do not roleplay as well/as much further into the background.

YMMV, of course.

 

[Nellisir]

Give her a fan. A really loud, vocal, fan of her character's performances. He shows up at all her gigs, and constantly wants to meet her/have dinner/rub shoulders with the great and wonderful her.

And then he wants to snoop around a bit and find out where she came from, and meet some people from her past.

 

[Harmon]

Few years back one of our long time players left, we all wanted to continue the campaign he was involved in but the group lacked a Cleric now, and the group could not continue without one (trust me on that one- we have tried).

In any case as the Player with the most left at the table I offered to play a second character. The GM was concerned that I would lose track or that the characters would be indistinguishable from one another. Not the case, the two are opposites- a once pain riddled soldier coming out of his shell of pain, and a happy optimistic cleric of Barronar Truesilver.

The two characters agree on little, and challenge each other often in their beliefs. The engaging is not me talking to myself, but rather the two character operating off the other two player and the three NPCs.

I tell you all this to offer a suggestion- challenge her Role Playing skills, tell her you want her to play a second character, you make it for her, tell her the character is needed for the future, but you need her character and this other character to be opposites.

Should she decline then move on. Should she accept then run with it, correct her on the second character only- "this was a total surprise to you, what will you do?"

I think its about challenging her Role Playing skills, about getting something from her on the table. It might even be worth sharing with the group this idea and using them to help you.

Hope this help, even a little. Take care, and peace to all.