Chacters that hate other characters

[BlackMoria]

Most responses have been from a DM point of view. Now consider a player's viewpoint.

I played a Dwarven Fighter, a follower of a dwarven god of war whose personality was a crochetty, contankerous, opinionated dwarf. I have played the dwarf with this personality (and consistent personality) until he was 7th level.

He was gruff but kindly to those who have won his respect. He was hardcore with concepts of honor. He had the dwarven (IMC) philosphy that 'we do not forgive nor forget' when it came to offences against the dwarven people. He does not suffer fools kindly, and foes even less kinder.

In short, at first blush, he was rude, obnoxious and a total jerk to anyone who wasn't a dwarf, until they had proven themselves in his eyes - then he was almost fatherly and a devote comrade to those who he accepted.

Those whom he considered to have insulted him and didn't immediately apologize usually got one of his ham fists in the chops or got headbutted in the groin. (Remember, he is a follower of a dwarven war god, so any insult must be responded to...)

I saw it coming.....

One of the characters dies (not due to anything the dwarf did) and the player decides to roll up a new character. The player decided that the character is going to be elf with a intense dislike of dwarves. The other players also saw what was coming and tried to dissuade the player but he persisted.

I was in a jam....I had worked on the character of the my dwarf for a long time and I was now faced with the fact that I would either have to be faithful to the character concept or I would have to cave in for the sake of accomodating this player's new character.

I decided that I wasn't going to cave in. The other player well knew the character concept I was playing and he didn't take a hint from the others that the character concept of a dwarf hating elf didn't fit in with my character present.

I honestly tried to get it to work. I decided that if the elf character backed down once the enviable conflict occurred, that my dwarf character would be fine with that.

To make a long story short, within 15 minutes, my character was pulling his war axe out of the downed elf's skull after a insult by the elf lead to a punch out which lead to the elf drawning steel on the dwarf and the final outcome.

The situation left a bad taste in my mouth and it was plain that it left a bad taste in the mouth of everyone else. Noone was having fun at this point, especially me.

I think I acted in character - in fact, the dwarf showed great restraint but since the elf character wouldn't leave it alone....

I guess the point of this post is this - given the above situation, what could have been done to stop the outcoming from playing out to its final stupidity?

 

[CRG]

Indifference kills me as well.

In a recent campaign where one player played the "neutral" alignment as "selfish and disinterested". Now, I was basically a supporting character role, since I wasn't going to be 100% available for the sessions. In general, I played party-supporting characters. Good of the team, rah rah rah. Neutral character, I might add, had by far the BEST attributes and HP of any of us and continued to lead the group level after level with just outstanding rolls, etc. He constantly complained about how his character was about to drop, get hurt, was inneffective, etc.

Character #1. 2nd level sorcerer, 16 con (human). Had something like 13 hit points.
- Party getting ass handed to it by a bunch of humanoids
- Fighter types getting hurt
- Need to get away
- Neutral character running around claiming he's about to die because he's taken alot of damage (he's at 3rd level by the way)
- We have one chance, I decide to step in at the risk of taking a SINGLE swing from the lead humanoid, after which our movement rates would allow all of us to get away
- I decide to do this because the strong folks are all hurt and near death
- As luck would have it, critical on the swing with a big 2h weapon dealing 25+ hit points of damage, character dead
- Neutral character says "ha, that would have put me at 1 hit point"

I fume....

Character #2 - Paladin abberation
- Party fighting
- Everyone is hurt
- Neutral character is strongest PC in the party
- Neutral character says he is very very hurt and can't take another hit
- Neutral character runs away
- Myself and one other try to carry out our dead comrades
- Bad guys get one final spell in on us - a lightning bolt
- Neutral player: "37 points of damage? I could have taken that even if I failed my save. I thought it would be more"
- The two of us who were trying to save the party, including his freaking hireling, die

Irritation.

 

[Meridian]

The Price of Non-conformity

Having gone through this experience myself, I can only say that it is the price of staying true to character vs. group harmony.

This is probably worthy of its own thread, but there should always be a consensus of the degree of conformity to traditional assumptions for gaming and for the system one is gaming in.

For example, I was reminded recently that anyone who plays a cleric in an DnD campaign is expected to have their character heal everyone and anyone in the party without reservation. If you're not prepared to do that, don't play a cleric. If you're a thief, don't steal from or lie to other party members. Etc, etc.

Similarly, if a player creates a dwarf-hating elf in a party with another player playing a dwarf who is ready to answer insult with steel, the conformist view is that the needs of the group come first versus the integrity of the PC personalities---it would have been within gaming etiquette for BlackMoria to back down and simply grumble because the antagonistic element is a PC. The reason for this view to evolve is the premise that if players didn't make these concessions, a party of diverse characters would not exist in the first place.

Unless you've had this conversation in a group setting, unless you've actually brought this topic into the open, you can never hope for the best in a situation like this. Agree openly upon what you may assume are the "givens" in any situation, otherwise you are setting up conflict unintentionally.

Most responses have been from a DM point of view. Now consider a player's viewpoint.

I played a Dwarven Fighter, a follower of a dwarven god of war whose personality was a crochetty, contankerous, opinionated dwarf. I have played the dwarf with this personality (and consistent personality) until he was 7th level.

He was gruff but kindly to those who have won his respect. He was hardcore with concepts of honor. He had the dwarven (IMC) philosphy that 'we do not forgive nor forget' when it came to offences against the dwarven people. He does not suffer fools kindly, and foes even less kinder.

In short, at first blush, he was rude, obnoxious and a total jerk to anyone who wasn't a dwarf, until they had proven themselves in his eyes - then he was almost fatherly and a devote comrade to those who he accepted.

Those whom he considered to have insulted him and didn't immediately apologize usually got one of his ham fists in the chops or got headbutted in the groin. (Remember, he is a follower of a dwarven war god, so any insult must be responded to...)

I saw it coming.....

One of the characters dies (not due to anything the dwarf did) and the player decides to roll up a new character. The player decided that the character is going to be elf with a intense dislike of dwarves. The other players also saw what was coming and tried to dissuade the player but he persisted.

I was in a jam....I had worked on the character of the my dwarf for a long time and I was now faced with the fact that I would either have to be faithful to the character concept or I would have to cave in for the sake of accomodating this player's new character.

I decided that I wasn't going to cave in. The other player well knew the character concept I was playing and he didn't take a hint from the others that the character concept of a dwarf hating elf didn't fit in with my character present.

I honestly tried to get it to work. I decided that if the elf character backed down once the enviable conflict occurred, that my dwarf character would be fine with that.

To make a long story short, within 15 minutes, my character was pulling his war axe out of the downed elf's skull after a insult by the elf lead to a punch out which lead to the elf drawning steel on the dwarf and the final outcome.

The situation left a bad taste in my mouth and it was plain that it left a bad taste in the mouth of everyone else. Noone was having fun at this point, especially me.

I think I acted in character - in fact, the dwarf showed great restraint but since the elf character wouldn't leave it alone....

I guess the point of this post is this - given the above situation, what could have been done to stop the outcoming from playing out to its final stupidity?

 

[dinsdale]

Painful PvP actions

Back in college I was in a Rolemaster campaign where my character really didn't get along with another character... I was playing a chaotic elven mage prone to practical jokes...the other character was a female anal-retentive dwarven fighter.

One day, I guess my character went too far, as the dwarf snuck up on my character that night and castrated him in his sleep. OUCH..

The really scary part is that the other player was my girlfriend at the time and we have since gotten married.

 

[mseds99]

very funny

that's a ridiculously funny story dinsdale. You can tell your grandkids that one. hehehe.

Regarding the issue presented, it really depends on the players. In one campaign, we played a group of evil PC's. There were four of us, two were bloodthirsty murders and two were sneaky, conniving charcatrs who were vying for leadership of the party. I was one of the conniving ones (a rogue) and the other scheming one was a mage. We used to battle wits and plant traps for each all the time. I can honestly say it was one of the most intese, interesting characters and campaigns that I have ever played in. As players, were were able to seperate the charcaters from ourselves and we enjoyed the challenges we presented to each other, especially while running the planned adventure.

On the other hand, I've been in a party where two people argue with each other and it has absolutley killed any potenytial fun we could have, They're problem was that the players took the insults persoanlly and the rest of us had to sit there and listen to them argue.

So it really depends on the player's ability to role-play. If the players can handle it, then it could add an interesting and exciting twist to gaming. If the players can't handle it, then it can kill a game. As everything. it's a dm's call.

 

[Hadraniel]

I played with a guy that made a character that hated elves. Well the group had 3 elves. We got into a encounter and he died, instead of bothering to take him back to be rezed we just left him there. If I recall one guy acually scalped him.

I think a little conflict is good, too much and it does leave a bad taste in some poeples mouths.

 

[Gizzard]

I guess the point of this post is this - given the above situation, what could have been done to stop the outcoming from playing out to its final stupidity?

Well, there is a difference between being a crotchety worshipper of the War god versus actually committing homicide (Elf-i-cide?).

A Dwarf who is very sure of his abilities might just laugh and tell the Elf to "put that steel away before you hurt yourself." Let the Elf have the first swing if it comes to blows, just to show that it was self-defense.

Or you could beat him senseless with subdual damage and let the party handle him after he wakes up.

I suppose it depends on how you view your Dwarf. Imagine that you are in a organized Lawful city; an NPC Elf comes up to you and starts mocking your Dwarven God and your Dwarven lineage. Do you punch him? Now, if the City Watch is standing nearby do you still punch him? Or do you just shake your head and grunt something in Dwarven under your breath? I suspect that your Dwarf will show more restraint in this situation than he did among his own party. In the city you are mindful of the consequences of killing someone - if its perceived that you started the fight, you will go to jail. The Dwarf may be stern and honor-bound, but he should also be disciplined enough to know when violence is called for and when it is not.

Of course, I also suspect that as soon as the other player made a Dwarf-annoying Elf he was irrevocably set upon the path of pestering you until one of you got killed. So whatever you did, you probably couldnt have avoided the outcome.

My 2c.

 

[BlackMoria]

A Dwarf who is very sure of his abilities might just laugh and tell the Elf to "put that steel away before you hurt yourself." Let the Elf have the first swing if it comes to blows, just to show that it was self-defense.

Basically that was how it played out. The character was a dwarf hating bladesinger. Gave the fool every opportunity to back down by ignoring him or dismissing his combat abilities. The elf character forced the issue - I think to assert that the bladesinger was the party's Alpha Male when it came to combat. Of course, the dwarf disagreed. Cuffed the elf when the insults from the elf required a response (the elf impinged the honor of the dwarf and his clan).

The elf drew steel. The dwarf told the pompous twink to put his puny butterknife away before he got himself dead. The elf refused (the player called for a initative roll). By the dwarf's code, that is tanamount to 'calling the dwarf out' and by the clan code and the code of the dwarven god of war, blood must be shed now.

So confident was I about the my character's abilities, I told the prissy-assed, tree hugging fluff to take his best shot 'cause he was only going to get one.

The rest is history. I think it was a case of two junkyard dogs wanting to go at it and only one was going to be the Alpha Male.

Or you could beat him senseless with subdual damage and let the party handle him after he wakes up.

I wish. My ethos is not to leave an enemy alive as a future threat. Dwarven war gods tend to take the extreme view of such matters.

The strange thing was, the player of the bladesinger was surprised that I killed his character. What did he expect?

 

[Kestrel]

My opinion of BlackMoria's example is that the player playing the elf was just being rude. I mean, he knew what was going to happen when he made the character, and in fact, he was even warned by the rest of the group.

As a player, I don't consider party conflict very fun. I can understand some rivalry and some arguments, but situations where the characters are actually fighting and killing each other is just not what I show up for. It tends to lead to grudges and players disliking each other. I've even seen it break up a group.

Is a PC concept really worth that kind of disharmony? I don't think so. In the end, if the player involved can't consider another player's desire for fun in a game, then maybe he isn't right for the group. No character concept is more important than the group's enjoyment of the game.

 

[Umbran]

I wish. My ethos is not to leave an enemy alive as a future threat. Dwarven war gods tend to take the extreme view of such matters.

Not that I at all condone what the bladesinger player did, but you did ask for input on how this could have been avoided...

From the dwarf's side, the major problem is with classifying the elf as an "enemy". He was arrogant, implusive, and stupid, but he wasn't really an enemy. He was just an elf who needed to learn a lesson. After learning it, he would not be an enemy. You could have taught it by giving him a non-lethal drubbing.

I mean, if a personal conflict arises between soldiers in the dwarven army, and someone gets a bit too hot, do they solve it with death duels?

As an aside - People often confuse a god of war with a god ofvioolence. To me (meaning, IMHO) a war god knows tactics. Knows foresight. Knows not to throw away a useful alliance when it isn't necessary. Knows that sometimes a "soldier" needs a bit of discipline, but that death is not the only way to dispense it.