Changes in shields?

[Fallen Seraph]

Yeah, it is a bit wonky. While I can see it giving a bonus to help deflect magic missiles or the like, it's patently ridiculous for a shield to give you a bonus to keep from falling into a pit trap.

Well I wonder perhaps those rules will state, BASE reflex score, so things like shield bonus won't be included. Or could state specifically, "Reflex Score - Shield Bonus".

 

[keterys]

The pit trap opens up before the brawny fighter and he reflexively sticks his shield into the opening. Woo, trap averted.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

The pit trap opens up before the brawny fighter and he reflexively sticks his shield into the opening. Woo, trap averted.

Actually that could work for a lot of traps; bolts out of wall (blocked by shield), spikes out of the ground (jump up and land on shield), fire shoots out of trap (use shield to cover self).

Those would also make sense in combination with Reflex, since you need to be fast to dodge/block those things, and a shield would add to your ability to block them.

 

[SmilingPiePlate]

When I saw the reflex part, the first thing I thought of was a fighter throwing his shield up to absord part of a dragon's breath. Seems pretty cool to me.

I like that the example lets you protect your friends too.

 

[Lord Sessadore]

I certainly hope they include a clause like that. Or else I'll just house rule that in.

Unless... you say that they use the shield to catch across the corner of the pit, and they're left hanging on the straps.. and then climb out....

Haha, yeah, it's ridiculous. Though anything to do with projectiles or incoming strikes a shield bonus to Ref makes sense.

 

[small pumpkin man]

I certainly hope they include a clause like that. Or else I'll just house rule that in.

Unless... you say that they use the shield to catch across the corner of the pit, and they're left hanging on the straps.. and then climb out....

Haha, yeah, it's ridiculous. Though anything to do with projectiles or incoming strikes a shield bonus to Ref makes sense.

Hrmm, I never did find remember to look if they put a similar clause in SW Saga, where you get your Armour to your ref save.

 

[Gloombunny]

Possible oddities with pit traps are a small price to pay for fighters finally being able to block dragons' breath with their shields like they do in every fantasy artwork ever.

(Yes, I'm exaggerating for effect. But seriously, that sort of thing happens all the time in illustrations and non-game fantasy material, and it's neat for D&D to manage it too.)

 

[FadedC]

They could also just make avoiding a pit trap not be a reflex save. Seems perfectly reasonable for it to be an athletics or acrobatics check. You may note the crushing boulder doesn't use reflex saves but isntead lets you use athletics to jump over it or strength to slow it down.

 

[Falling Icicle]

They could also just make avoiding a pit trap not be a reflex save. Seems perfectly reasonable for it to be an athletics or acrobatics check. You may note the crushing boulder doesn't use reflex saves but isntead lets you use athletics to jump over it or strength to slow it down.

That's a good idea, especially since reflex is no longer rolled. While it makes sense to me that shooting darts, spikes, flames, etc out of a trap would be a rolled attack, it would be pretty weird for a pit trap to roll to attack you. An Acrobatics check makes alot more sense.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

I'm a little curious at how the system will handle this considering their goal of keeping numbers relatively balanced against each other. With an AC and reflex bonus on shields the sword and boarder will gain AC at an accelerated rate compared to other characters and possibly break the math at higher levels. Any thoughts on this? Perhaps the +1 isn't included in AC and Reflex defense calculations?

The only really weird part about this (IMO) is that it would seem likely that weapon damage scales equally for two-handers and one-handers, whereas shield bonus scales only for sword-and-boarders.

For example, a +5 Flaming Longsword and a +5 Flaming Greatsword both get the same magical bonus to damage, but the Longsword wielder has also gained +5ish AC/Ref since level 1... meaning sword-and-board becomes a better and better mechanical option as you level up.

I'm betting they actually solve this by giving two-handed weapons better damage enhancements. Like, a greatsword can get "of Massive Flames" to do +1d10 flame damage whereas the longsword only gets "of Burning" to do +1d6. So damage scales better for two-handers and defense for shield-bearers.