Changing Deflect Arrows

[Kobold Avenger]

I don't like the change in 3.5 where arrows are automatically deflected or the DC 15 reflex save in place before.

Anyways my idea is to have it be a roll based off the opponent's skill, something like their 10 + BAB + dex bonus, with either an attack roll or reflex save to avoid the attack. Deflecting an 'Arrow' (or any ranged weapon) uses up an Attack of Opportunity, thus getting Combat Reflexes is a good idea.

A problem I see about it is, the massive scaling up to the DC to resist a ranged attack, unless we go with something similiar to special ability DCs where it's 10 + 1/2 opponent's level + dex mod to roll against.

Second of all, I always pictured deflecting arrows being more like they are in kung-fu movies where they use swords to deflect arrows and bullets. So I think a slight change in the requirements is in order.

These changes would also affect Snatch Arrows and Return Shot (XPH).

 

[Psion]

I'd say 1/2 opponents bab would make more sense than half opponents level. It's a bit more tabulation, but eh, doesn't bother me.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

Here's what I did with Deflect Arrows...

DEFLECT PROJECTILES [DEFENSE]
Prerequisite: Dex 13.
Benefit: You must have at least one hand free (holding nothing), have a readied shield, or be wielding a melee weapon that you are proficient with to use this feat. Once per round, when you would normally be hit by a projectile or hurled weapon attack, you may make a Deflection check (1d20 plus your Hit Dice plus your Dexterity modifier) versus a DC of (6 plus your attacker’s Hit Dice plus your attacker’s Dexterity modifier). If you succeed, you deflect it so that you take no damage from it. You must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed.
Attempting to deflect a ranged weapon doesn’t count as an action. Unusually massive ranged attacks, ranged attacks generated by spell effects, and ranged attacks by firearms and high-tech energy weapons cannot be deflected.

IMPROVED DEFLECT PROJECTILES [DEFENSE]
Prerequisite: Deflect Projectiles.
Benefit: You can use the Deflect Projectiles feat one additional time per round.

GREATER DEFLECT PROJECTILES [DEFENSE]
Prerequisite: Improved Deflect Projectiles.
Benefit: If you have at least one hand free (holding nothing), you may catch a thrown weapon that you just deflected and immediately use it as a Final attack.

SUPERIOR DEFLECT PROJECTILES [DEFENSE]
Prerequisite: Greater Deflect Projectiles.
Benefit: Each round, you can attempt to deflect an additional number of missiles equal to your Dexterity modifier (minimum 1). This benefit stacks with that gained from the Improved Deflect Projectiles feat.

PERFECT DEFLECT PROJECTILES [DEFENSE]
Prerequisite: Superior Deflect Projectiles.
Benefit: You can deflect projectiles that are one size category larger.
Special: You can take this feat more than once, each time you take it, you may defelct a projectile that is one additional size category larger.

EPIC DEFLECT PROJECTILES [DEFENSE, EPIC]
Prerequisite: Perfect Deflect Projectiles.
Benefit: Each round, you can attempt to deflect an additional number of missiles equal to your Dexterity modifier (minimum 1). This benefit stacks with that gained from the Improved Deflect Projectiles and Superior Deflect Projectiles feats, and with itself.
Special: You can take this feat more than once. Its effects stack.

TRANSCENDANT DEFELCT PROJECTILES [DEFENSE, EPIC]
Prerequisite: Epic Deflect Projectiles.
Benefit: You can attempt to deflect all sorts of ranged attacks, including ranged attacks generated by spell effects and ranged attacks by firearms and high-tech energy weapons. The DC of the deflection check for such attacks increases by 10.

I haven't gotten the chance to try it out in play, yet... So I can't guarantee that the numbers are right. I didn't want to base the check off of BAB because then monks (who are the primary getters of deflect projectiles) would be at a disadvantage to archer type fighters, and later wizards would be at a HUGE disadvantage with their touch spells against anyone who would take these feats.

Later
silver

 

[jeffh]

I don't like the change in 3.5 where arrows are automatically deflected or the DC 15 reflex save in place before.

Anyways my idea is to have it be a roll based off the opponent's skill, something like their 10 + BAB + dex bonus, with either an attack roll or reflex save to avoid the attack. Deflecting an 'Arrow' (or any ranged weapon) uses up an Attack of Opportunity, thus getting Combat Reflexes is a good idea.

A problem I see about it is, the massive scaling up to the DC to resist a ranged attack, unless we go with something similiar to special ability DCs where it's 10 + 1/2 opponent's level + dex mod to roll against.

Second of all, I always pictured deflecting arrows being more like they are in kung-fu movies where they use swords to deflect arrows and bullets. So I think a slight change in the requirements is in order.

These changes would also affect Snatch Arrows and Return Shot (XPH).

Why not an opposed attack roll, perhaps with a bonus of +4 or so? That seems to depend on the right things and not be as kludgy as any of the other suggestions in this thread (no new formula to keep track of).

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Second of all, I always pictured deflecting arrows being more like they are in kung-fu movies where they use swords to deflect arrows and bullets. So I think a slight change in the requirements is in order.

Just for the record, I've seen at least one martial arts master actually pluck arrows from the air with his bare hands. I don't know how powerful a bow was used, so I don't know how fast that arrow was travelling, but still...

 

[Li Shenron]

Why even trying to define a DC from scratch, when you already have it:

DC = the attack roll just done by the archer

That obviously scales with the opponent. At 1st level the average is probably around 13-14.

edit: that's almost the same as your 10+BAB+Dex, except that it makes magic weapons harder to deflect, and instead of being fixed it has a variable DC (but because you have already rolled the attack, it doesn't require any extra roll or calculation). It makes sense to me that a lousy shot can be deflected more easily than a precise or lucky one.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

From what I determined usually the attack roll is going to be somewhat higher, because the reason you used deflect arrows in the first place was because they rolled high enough to hit.

So the opposed attack roll should get some sort of bonus, maybe +4 as previously suggested, but is that high enough?

I think I'm looking for roughly a 33% to 50% chance to deflect an arrow from a dedicated ranged fighter of the same level. Maybe we should work from the assumption you were hit with a roll of 10 to 15 from a fighter of equal level, and have a good chance of deflecting their attacks. If they rolled higher than 15 your chances decreases of deflecting that anyways.

 

[el-remmen]

I use a Reflex against the attack roll

and Improved Deflect Arrows allows a # of additional deflections per round equal to your dex mod (combat reflexes is a pre-req)

 

[Michael Silverbane]

I use a Reflex against the attack roll

and Improved Deflect Arrows allows a # of additional deflections per round equal to your dex mod (combat reflexes is a pre-req)

Using a Reflex save versus an attack roll makes Deflect Arrows a very bad choice for fighting types, who usually have a poor reflex save...

Later
silver

 

[Kobold Avenger]

That's why I'm thinking something along the lines of 3.5e's opposed roll against feinting in combat (adding BAB to the opposed Sense Motive roll), where you get to add BAB to the Reflex Save opposed against the attack roll.

By my calculations a 20th level fighter not devoted to ranged combat maybe has an attack bonus of +25, while one devoted to ranged combat probably has an attack roll of at least +35 (+5 weapon, feats, high dex and so on).

A very good reflex saving throw at 20th level is maybe around +22, probably around +10 for those with poor reflex saves and a few things to help them out.