Changing Warlock powers to Melee: Balanced?

[Morandir Nailo]

Classes in 4e break down along two main descriptors: power source and role, so you get Arcane Controller, Martial Defender, etc. But melee/ranged does not get its own category. This is understandable from some role standpoints (I'm not sure how an exclusively ranged Defender would work, for instance) but from other standpoints it's not. For instance, the Striker role. Warlock is the Arcane Striker: highly mobile, focused on single-target effects. The problem is that the Warlock's powers are exclusively ranged; they have no abilities that tie into a Weapon attack. This seems a bit unfair when you consider that the Ranger and Rogue have powers that can be used in melee or ranged combat.

But what if they did? Here's what I would change:

-All Ranged powers become Melee powers. Area, Close and Personal powers remain the same.
-The powers which become Melee lose the Implement keyword, and gain the Weapon keyword.
-Change the damage for those powers from Xdx+mod to X[W]+mod.

Do you guys think this would be balanced?

Mor

 

[keterys]

Well, almost all of the powers don't target AC, so in theory that's a sizable boon for hitting more often since they'll get the proficiency bonus largely for free.

Survivability is a different question.

 

[Nifft]

1/ House Rules is one forum down.

2/ Nope, I don't think it'd be balanced. Warlock's Curse is easier to use and spread (thus easier to benefit from) than either Sneak Attack or Hunter's Quarry, and it works just fine in combination with a melee attack. I've designed a very effective melee Infernal Warlock just using the core rules -- he'd be unfairly devastating if he were allowed to use his at-will powers on melee attacks.

3/ Half the at-will powers wouldn't even make sense. Eldritch Blast has no side effect, so what would it be? "Make a basic attack, deal 1[w] + Str damage"? How would Dire Radiance help, if you're already in melee?

Cheers, -- N

 

[Plane Sailing]

Move to house rules.

This is related to an issue I was wondering about a few days ago, which is whether it would be worth including 'powers' (or feats?) which keyed into eldritch blast and gave that additional capabilities - much like the 3e warlock had.

Whether there are options to add energy types to the eldritch blast, or options to make EB usable in melee (as per a couple of the old warlock invocations).

Cheers

 

[Blackbrrd]

If you exchange implement with weapon you need to change the defense to AC as well, to keep the power balanced. Or just give all a -3 to attack.

 

[Morandir Nailo]

Guys, this is the House Rules forum: "4e Fan Creations and House Rules."

Good point though about targeting AC; that should definitely be included, otherwise the Weapon Prof. bonus is unfair.

Eldritch Blast would remain keyed to your "casting" stat, either Cha or Con; note that I said nothing about changing which attack/damage stat was used. Furthermore, since EB can be used as a basic attack, a melee EB would be available for use as an OA.

Dire Radiance actually becomes a great power. You can hit someone with it and shift back. When they move forward to re-engage you in melee, they take damage. Imagine smacking Kobolds with this one.

Warlock's Curse could be changed to work like the Hunter's Quarry feature.

As for survivability, note that all Striker classes use the same Starting HP, HP/level, and Healing Surge values. In addition, Warlocks have the same armor profs as the Rogue. A Con-focused melee Warlock would actually be a very tough melee Striker.

Nifft, what have you done to make an effective melee Warlock? The only way to get good melee powers is through multiclassing, and that can have its own problems if you don't have a high Str or Dex to key your melee powers from, nevermind the fact that they're 1/encounter at the most.

The idea here is to create a variant Arcane Striker whose primary focus is melee (rather than one who can be built, if you choose, to do melee). Warlock, being the Arcane Striker, was naturally where I chose to start from, but I'm definitely up for hearing any ideas you guys have for making this a viable concept without resorting to multiclassing.

Mor

 

[Nifft]

Guys, this is the House Rules forum: "4e Fan Creations and House Rules."

See where the moderator said, "moved to House Rules"? That means before his post, it wasn't.

Nifft, what have you done to make an effective melee Warlock? The only way to get good melee powers is through multiclassing, and that can have its own problems if you don't have a high Str or Dex to key your melee powers from, nevermind the fact that they're 1/encounter at the most.

Behold the Hexhammer.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Morandir Nailo]

Geez, shows how much I pay attention...

Anyway, that's a nice build (really nice actually). But I'd rather have a class which starts out doing that, rather than being forced to build one with multiple classes, and waiting until later levels to use my core concept: smashing people in the face with magic in melee. It's just like 3e where "gish" builds relied on dual-advance PrCs and had to wait until higher levels to be useful, at least until the Duskblade came along. Really it's a problem with WotC's design philosophy, which seems to be "Martial classes can choose between melee and ranged freely, but magic-users can only be ranged unless they're willing to jump through hoops." In other words, why can't Melee Arcane Striker be a core concept? Screw the old archetypes, I want an Eldritch Warrior who uses his personal reserve of arcane power to charge his weapon and make deadly strikes one round, and throws a fireball the next, without having to wait until level 6. </rant>

Mor