"Charging provokes attacks of opportunity."

[McBard]

Not to 'jack the thread away from charging, but since Run (speed + 2 squares) only takes a move action, then does that mean that the Combat Advantage the runner gives up only lasts during the move action of the run?

That is, it seems you could run as a move action (speed + 2 squares; grant combat advantage) and then just move as a move action (speed squares, but combat advantage is NOT granted).

Finally, with regards to both charging and running, it also seems that the "in a straight line" rules of 3.X no longer apply to either one.

 

[carldot34]

Charging

I'm not convinced about the argument. 4e is "a game where exceptions trump the standard" so saying that charge is movement and doesn't provoke from the target is not vaild.
i want charging to look like the start of LOTR (the movie) in my game. The orcs charged the elf line who all took those sweeping AoO on the attackers. The AoO won't kill a charging attacker (it has to be a basic attack after all) but he takes some damage.

Benefits to charge.
You move double the usual distance AND get an attack at +1.

Cons.
You have to risk that AoO but it won't hurt you that much and you'll still get to complete your attack.

I think that is better than:
Your fighter runs twice his move (up to 60+ feet), in armour most likely and delivers an attack before a prepared opponent can mount a defence? Not likely, or not in my game unless the PHB SPECIFICALLY says he/she can.

I like the new version. Why mention the AoO in KotS if it ISN'T an exception?

Carl

 

[Mort_Q]

Those elves had all readied actions to attack the charging orcs when they entered the threatened square.

That said, having the basic rule say that charges don't provoke an OA from the target allows for feats that let the target get an OA.

All is good.

 

[jdeyonke]

One thing I don't think has been pointed out - you don't have to charge in a straight line like in 3.5. This makes it much easier to avoid those OA when charging in.
The first time I played 4E it was weird seeing the DM move the monster around a little and then charge. Took a while to get used to, but worth keeping in mind when worrying about OA.
From what I recall of playing with a designer at DDXP, the one being charged never got an OA on the charger...

 

[Mort_Q]

4e is "a game where exceptions trump the standard" so saying that charge is movement and doesn't provoke from the target is not vaild.

Movement into a threatened square doesn't provoke an OA, only movement out of or through a threatened square provokes.

Charging an opponent is moving into a targets threatened square, not through it (unless it has threatening reach).

 

[carldot34]

Moving into threatened squares

Very true Mort-Q EXCEPT that (in the hypothectical discussion here) charging would be an exception. Moving into a threatened square does not provoke an AoO, true.
Running 15 feet plus, waving your sword above your head and screaming your head off ought not to provoke AoO from statues, rocks, etc, true.
I actually LIKE the idea of hordes of kobolds breaking like waves over one of my PC's fighters. I don't like the same fighter charging up and attacking my BBEG without any risk (ignoring any guards my BBEG might have. I don't want my Big Bad Evil Guy to be less fearsome because my fighter can charge up and whale on him without being harmed.
I also want my party to stick together and support each other. I am NOT going to encourage a rule that has the fighter (the supposed party defender) running 60 feet ahead of the party because he want's firtblood on the bad guy. I'll not stop him doing it but I won't let him have an easy ride. He should be defending his mates, not hogging the glory. 4e encourages teamwork, not solo grandstanding, which was much easier to do in 3.x

I think the arguement for no AoO falls into two camps:
1. You are a player and don't want even the risk of damage. Go for the no AoO.
2. You are a GM but like to cream the players as often as possible. Go for no AoO.

All of this is moot until WoTC give us a definitive answer. Yes, I have read the answer from Customer Services. 'Charging provokes attacks of oppotunity just like movement does.' This does NOT answer the basic question of the AoO from the target of the charge. 3.x is explicit; the target does NOT get an AoO. I don't think we can extrapolate that to 4e.

Carldot34
"I blame all faults on my parents making poor stat rolls!"

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

I actually LIKE the idea of hordes of kobolds breaking like waves over one of my PC's fighters. I don't like the same fighter charging up and attacking my BBEG without any risk (ignoring any guards my BBEG might have. I don't want my Big Bad Evil Guy to be less fearsome because my fighter can charge up and whale on him without being harmed.

Well, that ruling is going to hurt your players far more than any monsters, as they'll mostly likely take more OAs than give over the course of a campaign.

While I agree that exceptions trump general rules, I really don't believe charge is intended to provoke OAs from the target, only those the charger has to pass through.

What you saw in the LOTR movie was more likely a readied action on the part of th elves, not something that the orcs did.

 

[Jhaelen]

If charging in 4E is anything like the charge rules in DDM2.0 then the charge action itself does not provoke an OA. It's only the movement part of it that _may_ provoke OAs.