CHARISMA: Is it a dud score?

[Eternalknight]

For a long time there has been talk about how Charisma is the 'dump stat', the ability you put your lowest score in. The reason for this is that most people consider it a useless, or at least worst, of the ability scores.

What do you think, generally speaking? Is it crap-tastic? Is it fantastic? My personal opinion is: it depends on the type of game you are playing. A heavily role-played game will probably feature lots of Charisma based skill checks, so it suddenly becomes important.

Your thoughts?

 

[Stormborn]

While I agree that the utility of any stat tends to depend on your game, it also depends on your players. I do disagree with the assertion that "most" people see it as useless or the worst stat. The people I play with like high CHA PCs just because thats the kind of PC they want to play with. In our games WIS is a more likely lowest stat, simply because most of us would rather play a slightly reckless but dashing hero than a sullen or quiet person who blends into the backgroud. While the RAW may downplay CHA, I don't think its the dump stat. It all depends on who you play with and what they want to play.

 

[ForceUser]

I hardly think that Charisma is a dump stat for bards, clerics, paladins, and sorcerers.

 

[Eternalknight]

I hardly think that Charisma is a dump stat for bards, clerics, paladins, and sorcerers.

Agreed, but let's talk in more general terms, leaving class out of it.

There are at least two threads in House Rules at the moment that talk about making Charisma more useful, generally, but I really don't think it needs to be made more useful, no matter what class you are playing.

 

[Aeson]

I haven't seen CHA play a big part in the games I've played of late unless it is used by a class that needs it. Sometimes those players tend to use it for skills.

 

[Crothian]

Charisma is the only stat that people cheat with. Hear me out on this one. Players will place a low stat in Charisma annd then not role play it out that way. And then DMs let them get away with this type of cheating. I've seen it plenty of times and games I've played and in conversations on these boards.

But it does depend on the type of game. If I run a heavy role playing game I as DM can make strength a useless stat. Or if I let player play dumb character smart, I can make Intelligence a useless stat.

Charisma is only a dud stat when the players cheat and the DMs allows them to get away with it. Or if the DM is just not a good DM and allows characters with negativbes that don't matter.

 

[I'm A Banana]

It really depends on what your party spends a lot of time doing. If it's delving dungeons and breaking doors, yeah, you don't need a whole lot of Charisma for that. But if there's lots of NPC's, if there's a wider community, if there's intrigue and lies and sex and videotape and pole dancing polish polar bears wielding polearms.....well, except in that last instance, Charisma can be MUCH more important than Strength.

 

[DragonLancer]

Unless your character is one who has a use for it, I do agree that it is a dump stat. But it does depend on your character.

 

[Aeson]

Good point Crothian. I have seen that also.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

I like to "break" Charisma. But it really depends on extra books and the like. Take the Marshal from Miniatures Handbook, for one. That's a great one. Divine feats from Complete Warrior and Complete Divine.

Core, the Diplomacy skill is GREAT for breaking the game. The fact that the DC doesn't change or scale means after a while, you can make friends of enemies and the like. The RAW don't much give GMs help for adjudicating a PC who can very often take a Hostile creature and make it Helpful.

For my part, I don't usually play a character with less than 10 in Charisma. I have a real hate for playing anybody with less than a 10 in a stat, however. My current PC didn't REALLY have a reason for anything more than an 8 Charisma, since I was using his Turn Undead attempts per day to power other abilities via feats. But I picked a great feat that worked off of Charisma and stuck a 12 in there, and am actually wearing a Cloak of Charisma at this point ...

With my particular build, even, the best low-level pieces of magic would be a Ring of Protection or a Cloak of Charisma or Cloak of Resistance. So I'm not sad at all about buffing up my Cha, even though the build is more dependant on Strength, Wis, and Con.

--fje