CHARISMA: Is it a dud score?

[Calico_Jack73]

I think that I like option 1 a lot, but that doesn't solve the problem too much because only one person in the party needs it.

I think I'd start using the average charisma of the party. If the party has a spokesman with a high charisma but a bunch of social low-lifes with low charisma they'd pull him down in the eyes of John Q. Public.

"Gee... I thought he was a stand up kind of guy until I found out what kind of people he hangs around with."

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

IMC the most commonly rolled skill rolls are for Cha-based skills, so I don't see Cha as a dump stat, though we certainly don't see any characters maxing out Cha just because (leave that to the bard and sorcerer). At the same time, I don't see many true dump-stat characters -- with a 6 or lower in the stat -- probably because with point buy, everyone has to start at at least 8, and most of my players seem to dislike having negative ability modifiers.

 

[tetsujin28]

Have you often seen the PCs addressed separately in an adventure scenario?

For the last 30-some-odd years of gaming? Nearly ever session.

 

[tetsujin28]

No, it's a good one. Turn undead becomes really lame after a few levels.

Not at all. Whilst your ability to turn undead might become lame (which I don't buy, at all), the things you can do with the number of turns, such as turn-based feats, are a great advantage to the cleric class that you're robbing yourself of by having a low CHA.

Furthermore, plenty of clerics don't try to convert people. There's little point in a world where everyone knows deities exist already

Said clerics are doing a really poor job. They're supposed to show how great their god is and act as an exemplar, so that the deity will gain more worshippers.

 

[tetsujin28]

most of the fighters i've seen take a high str and dump cha with the newer editions.

This has always been the case, in any editon where you got to arrange your stats as you liked. CHA has always been the dumpstat for non-paladin fighters. 3.x changed that, thank God. I'd say the real dumpstat for fighters is INT. So you get 1 less skill. Whoopdeedoo. That's not your job. Your job is to hit things. Skills are for rangers.

 

[LostSoul]

Situation 2 (the right way): Low Cha vs High Cha - If DM's really gave Charisma the respect it deserved then the High Str/Low Cha fighters would feel they are getting the short end of the stick after every game session.

The way I see this, you're just using the Diplomacy etc. skills. Even when the player doesn't say, "I'm rolling Diplomacy." It's a passive skill that's always on, and the PC is Taking 10. So just write down what the PC has with a Take 10 result, and that's how Indifferent people treat him. (+5 = Friendly, +20 = Helpful, -9 = Unfriendly.)

This means that only PCs with 20+ Cha scores, who have no other Diplomacy modifiers (such as ranks), will have other people treat them as Friendly automatically. Maybe that's strange, but that's how the rules work.

This also means that a PC who describes his character as "intimidating" only needs a +1 to the check in order for most people to cower down in fear for him.

 

[tetsujin28]

I'd have no problem with a high Cha/low Str character as long as the DM adjuticated the scores properly.

Situation 2 (the right way): Low Cha vs High Cha - If DM's really gave Charisma the respect it deserved then the High Str/Low Cha fighters would feel they are getting the short end of the stick after every game session.

Wah-bloody-wah. I'd have no sympathy. I treat all six stats equally. If you make a dump stat, you're going to feel it.

 

[Stalker0]

As others have made mention, cha is weak because mechanically there's nothing good about it except for classes that need it.

I've just read every post leading to this one, and in almost all of them you notice something like this: "As a DM I do..." "The DM should" etc. That's the problem. Every other stat requires no dm involvement to be useful.

You want to able to carry anything? Better have some str. You want a decent AC? You want to actually have hit points? You want skills? You want to make sure your will save isn't in the gutter? A dm doesn't have to do a thing with those stats.

Now Cha is very useful for many monsters as their spell-like abilities are all tied to cha (it is the magic stat if you will).


I have often liked the idea of cha as luck. One simply house rule I used for a while was on any roll that you rolled a 10, you got to add your cha mod (positive or negative). So it became the luck stat that could sway those average rolls one way or another.

For any of you making house rules, keep something in mind. A truly good addition doesn't just reward a high cha, it penalizes a low one. I see a lot of mechanics that give great rewards for high cha, but if your not going for the really high cha don't bother getting it at all.

 

[Yair]

[hijack]

Said clerics are doing a really poor job. They're supposed to show how great their god is and act as an exemplar, so that the deity will gain more worshippers.

Says who? Why is "getting more worshippers for the deity" in the cleric's job description?
IMC, it isn't. The deity will support clerics that do anything that is in line with its portfolio and alignment, especially for a PC. I allow maximum flexibility to the player in describing what the character does, I try to not constrict it.
As a cleric of Kord, for example, the character would do well to further or practice feats of athletic prowess and strength, and as long as he does that while not straying too far in alignment from Kord he will receive his spells per day and so on. Kord's local church focuses on orchestrating athletic competitions to the masses; if the cleric would disagree with this, focusing instead on say using their strength (and the church's money!) to good use such as fighting off mosnters, that's totally acceptable. If he will come to blows with the church's clerics over this, BOTH sides will get divine spells and support. (Assuming such an act won't violate the alignment restrictions too much.)
IMC Kord doesn't really need worshippers, and does not take actions to have more. The concern of having more or less worshippers is... beneath him. He doesn't care one iota if his cleric wins more converts, he simply supports those worthy of support.
[/hijack]

 

[wuyanei]

A 'simple' way to make Cha important -- introduce sanity rules, and tie maximum sanity to the Charisma score (instead of Wisdom, which makes no sense).

This actually has a great symmetry to it -- Int as mental strength, Wis as mental dexterity (defense/reaction), Cha as mental constitution (for of personality).

Just a suggestion.

Happy gaming!
Yanei Wu