CHARISMA: Is it a dud score?

[The Shaman]

I think I just realized the paradigm problem we're having. You're approaching this thinking of point-builds; I'm approaching it from the stand-point of the standard method of rolling your attributes.

Wait a sec - you mean to say there are gamers that still roll attributes?!?

Your definition of "dump stat" is simply not the common definition of the term. You'll find yourself creating lots of confusion whenever you use it as a result.

My definition of dump stat isn't simply lowest stat, that's correct - it's lowest stat with a penalty. Dropping (or rolling... ) a 10 into the character's lowest stat isn't really 'dumping' anything.

As I said, I don't know the consensus definition here.

 

[ForceUser]

ForceUser, my last PC in your game, Slick Freddie, had an 8 CHA and maxed Diplomacy, Sense Motive, and Bluff. I had him in mind when I responded to this thread ;-)

Ken

Again, you're the exception. I like it when PCs aren't wholly optimized, but IME that's rarely the case.

 

[babomb]

I've been tossing around a house rule for CHA....

Characters don't get action points normally.... they get action points equal to their charisma bonus, each time they level.

If they have a CHA penalty, do you give them negative action points?

Player: I rolled a 24. Does that hit?
DM: Well, it would, but I use one of your negative action points. (Rolls.) Subtract 4. 20 Misses.
Player: Stupid friggin' house rules...

 

[tetsujin28]

Your thoughts?

Having a low CHA in our game is a great way to have most NPCs hate you.

 

[tetsujin28]

Wait a sec - you mean to say there are gamers that still roll attributes?!?

We've never done it any other way, in D&D, at least.

 

[Sejs]

Charisma is the only stat that people cheat with. Hear me out on this one. Players will place a low stat in Charisma annd then not role play it out that way. And then DMs let them get away with this type of cheating. I've seen it plenty of times and games I've played and in conversations on these boards.

I'm actually going to disagree with you on that one a bit. I'd actually expand the statement to cover pretty much all three mental stats. Quite frequently I've seen people putting lower numbers into, say, Int, and then just playing at their own native level of ability when it comes time to put that int to the test.

As a DM I find it a bit harder to gauge where to draw the line with someone misrepresenting their intelligence. Where exactly to make the cut-off and say "You're not smart enough to come up with that plan".

For misrepresenting charisma I find it much easier to deal with as a DM - low charisma guy trying to come off as slick? I just imagine everything that's coming out of their mouth as being said by Gilbert Gottfried. Then react accordingly. Sometimes low cha is someone being shy or whatnot. Other times it's for different reasons; if the player chooses to be low-cha-but-gregarious, Gilbert takes care of things for me.

 

[blargney the second]

I just retired a PC because I got tired of playing an 8 Charisma. Anything can be a dump stat, it just depends on what you want to play.

-blarg

 

[Yair]

Cha depends on the character concept.

I have one player that serves as the "face" of the party; Cha 18.
I have one player that plays a rouge that doesn't want to stick out; Cha 10.
I have a player that plays a melee-focused cleric; Cha 6.
I have a player that plays a combat-focused wizard; Cha 6.
I have a player that plays a melee-focused fighter; Cha 10, but only because we pressured him to have a high Cha. He had Cha 4 in one version.

The thing is, in terms of party needs only one character really needs to have high Cha and social skills. Just like only one person needs to have a high Search and Disable Device and some rogue levels. Characters can afford to have low Cha and have others make Cha checks for them; they cannot afford to have low Dex and have someome else have a high AC, or so on.
This is why Cha is a dumb stat, for some builds and games.

Personally, I use Diplomacy checks a lot but never Cha checks. Characters with bad Cha certainly will suffer as a result of low Diplomacy check results. (I don't really follow the RAW or any other rules, I just go with the "feel" or some opposed check when assigning DC.)
Edit: Come to think of it, NPCs also consider Cha itself in my games, for initial gut feelings, and it even has a disproportionate effect: a Cha 4 person would be treated very badly, despite having only -3 to his roll by the RAW.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

One of the PCs in my FR campaign has such a high Diplomacy that he can fast-talk most people. His high Charisma definitely doesn't hurt there.

 

[Li Shenron]

Agreed, but let's talk in more general terms, leaving class out of it.

First of all, I think that classes matter. Strength is my own most common dump stat, because half of the times I play arcane casters. In 3ed there are two classes built around charisma (Bards and Sorcerers), one heavily dependent on it (Paladin) and one mdoerately dependent on it (Cleric), that's already one third of the classes. It's about the same as Wisdom who has 5.