Charisma, still the poor stat!

[LostSoul]

LostSoul, what uses do you have for charisma for in roleplay? Do you make them roleplay the encounter and then role for things like Bluff checks?

I make them roll for all "talking" encounters, like Bluff and Intimidate checks.

If they've all got low charisma scores, nobody is going to like them. People are going to laugh at them when they are serious and take offense when they make jokes. They will never get the girl. They will never get the credit. They are the weird, ugly kids in the back who you don't want to talk to. If they weren't crazed adventurers, they'd be bullied.

I take the Charisma of the characters into account whenever they meet somebody.

 

[Umbran]

What I'm looking for is a way to make charisma important to these players!!!

How much interaction with NPCs do these guys have? If you have charisma impact social interaction, then it'll become important.

If they're still unimpressed, make the price of gear (magical and mundane) depend on charisma. A low-charisma character will be a lousy haggler

 

[Schmoe]

I have had no difficulty at all in making the social skills important. When I run a role-playing encounter, the PC and NPC will interact to the point where I feel the PC is trying to get the NPC change his or her view or offer in some way. Then I use a Diplomacy or Bluff check (whichever is more appropriate) to determine how successful the PC's negotiations were.

My players seem to enjoy the way it works, and since I've made it clear that they get experience for overcoming challenges whether it was accomplished via combat or diplomacy, they have a new respect for their silver-tongued bard. I've even heard a few of them grumbling that they haven't focused on Diplomacy as much as they would have liked! To me, that tells me I'm doing something right.

 

[Lord Vangarel]

Umbran, I've already made prices dependent on haggling, but what would be really nice would be some way of affecting the characters directly because they have this low stat.

LostSoul, thanks for the reply. Do you apply modifiers based on what the players say as well as the character's charisma or just the character's charisma?

I guess it's like the old 2nd Edition S&P book where players could take roleplay disadvantages for combat advantages. I feel that by dumping on charisma my players are still doing this. What I'd really like is a table that says ok, if you have a high charisma these are the "game" benefits you will receive then the players can compare it to say having more hit points from a good constitution.

 

[LostSoul]

I've even heard a few of them grumbling that they haven't focused on Diplomacy as much as they would have liked! To me, that tells me I'm doing something right.

Cool!

 

[Schmoe]

Another trick that you can use is to begin most NPC encounters with an NPC attitude of indifferent. After an initial exchange, have the spokesman of the group make a Diplomacy check (Charisma, if untrained). If the result is 10 or less (I think), that NPC's attitude becomes unfriendly. Once this happens enough, the group will likely re-evaluate just which stats are the most important.

Obviously, to a group who spends the majority of their time mucking about in dungeons, their social skills will be of very low priority. I don't see a problem with that at all.

 

[Bonedagger]

Encourage a different kind of play among your players by having things that can only be achived through good roles involving charisma.

By the way. While Munchkin players often use charisma as a dump stat it doesn't mean that low chaisma = a munchkin.

 

[Lord Vangarel]

Schmoe, thanks. That's the sort of change I want to achieve. So Diplomacy and Bluff but what else uses Charisma?

I understand that if I'm going to make players want better charisma scores in the future I'm going to have to introduce a lot more roleplaying encounters and keep doing this until they get the message!!!

 

[Harp]

This, I think, is an excellent question. 3e has done an admirable job of trying to make Charisma a worthwhile attribute, but it's still essentially a dumping ground.

It's not earth-shattering or anything, but I really like the take on Charisma I found at the World of Kyri website (http://www.starguild.freeserve.co.uk/frp/). I hope the author doesn't mind me reposting it here.

In my campaign WIS is perceptiveness, skilful living and so forth. CHA is force of personality, inner energy, persuasiveness.

As a result of this, CHA gives bonus on Will saving throws, rather than WIS.

A low CHA attribute doesn't mean that a character is naturally rude to everyone, it means that they have not much of a personality, they are insecure and they don't make that much of an impact on people. Even evil people want a high CHA if they want people to care about what they think and the way that they act, rather than just being seen as essentially nobodies. People just aren't scared of the reputation of a low CHA evil wizard - he's just a geek. A powerful geek to be sure, but just a geek.

 

[Schmoe]

By the way. While Munchkin players often use charisma as a dump stat it doesn't mean that low chaisma = a munchkin.

Absolutely! Consider the three twerps from Buffy.