Charisma, still the poor stat!
- Thread starter Lord Vangarel
- Start date
Pielorinho
Iron Fist of Pelor
One quick note re selling and buying equipment: a smart party will appoint the sorcerer (bard/paladin/cleric) as the party's merchant and ask them to do all buying and selling. Consider that this trick will likely increase the party's treasure significantly if even one person has a high charisma.
Daniel
Daniel
Lord Vangarel
First Post
Tallow, good easy idea that shows a direct effect for the party without every purchase having the be roleplayed out. This leaves the roleplay for the main encounters where it is intended.
Pielorinho, good point. The players will quickly find this way around such a problem.
Pielorinho, good point. The players will quickly find this way around such a problem.
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You can use a Reputation score. Only the character in a group with the highest score is of any interest. The rest are considered his/her comrades.
Reputation = Level+Charisma bonus times X%
Levels 1-5 X=1
Levels 6-10 X=2
Levels 11-15 X=3
Levels 16-20 X=4
(As a mnemonic: X is the base number of attacks a fighter-class of that level gets.)
Example: A 7th level fighter with a Charisma of 8 will have a reputation of 12% Which means he will be known by 12% of the population. The nature of the reputation depends on the character's alignment.
A 1st level paladin with a charisma of 18 will have a reputation of 5%
A 17th level paladin with a charisma of 22 will have a reputation of 92%
A 12th level chaotic evil rogue with a charisma of 12 will be known as a vile and ruthless character by 39% of the population. Most will only know his trade name. "Yeah, I've heard of [whisper]the Black Hand [/whisper]. I'd steer clear of him if I were you..."
Reputation = Level+Charisma bonus times X%
Levels 1-5 X=1
Levels 6-10 X=2
Levels 11-15 X=3
Levels 16-20 X=4
(As a mnemonic: X is the base number of attacks a fighter-class of that level gets.)
Example: A 7th level fighter with a Charisma of 8 will have a reputation of 12% Which means he will be known by 12% of the population. The nature of the reputation depends on the character's alignment.
A 1st level paladin with a charisma of 18 will have a reputation of 5%
A 17th level paladin with a charisma of 22 will have a reputation of 92%
A 12th level chaotic evil rogue with a charisma of 12 will be known as a vile and ruthless character by 39% of the population. Most will only know his trade name. "Yeah, I've heard of [whisper]the Black Hand [/whisper]. I'd steer clear of him if I were you..."
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Henry
Autoexreginated
Lord Vangarel, the biggest suggestion is to ensure that silver-tongued players do not overcompensate for uncharismatic characters. Too many DM's put more weight on what a player says during roleplaying an encounter than on how the character would have actually done it. It doesn't matter if Bob the Player can sell refrigerators to Pit Fiends, if the 5 charisma, 0 diplomacy rank fighter he plays tries to convince someone of his point of view, it's going to be a difficult sell. In my opinion, if a player playing such a socially-inept character is trying to overcome this, THE PLAYER IS ROLE-PLAYING POORLY.
I highly recommend renting the Martin Lawrence movie Black Knight. In addition to being hillarious and a fun time, it has one scene in it of a TERRIBLE diplomacy check, followed by a failed diplomacy check from another person, then a SPECTACULAR diplomacy check as a re-try. You will know it when you see it.
The main point is that if you make it necessary, then your players will see it as necessary.
here is a suggestion: A local noble has a mine that has been infested with monsters. He needs a party to clean it, but NOT JUST ANY party will do. Who knows what shady hooligans are going to tear up his equipment and steal him blind worse than the monsters??? The place is a goldmine of wealth in monster parts and treasure, but unless they can convince the noble to give them the job, they aren't legally coming within 1 mile of the place.
The party may want to hire an NPC bard just to convince the noble!!
I highly recommend renting the Martin Lawrence movie Black Knight. In addition to being hillarious and a fun time, it has one scene in it of a TERRIBLE diplomacy check, followed by a failed diplomacy check from another person, then a SPECTACULAR diplomacy check as a re-try. You will know it when you see it.
The main point is that if you make it necessary, then your players will see it as necessary.
here is a suggestion: A local noble has a mine that has been infested with monsters. He needs a party to clean it, but NOT JUST ANY party will do. Who knows what shady hooligans are going to tear up his equipment and steal him blind worse than the monsters??? The place is a goldmine of wealth in monster parts and treasure, but unless they can convince the noble to give them the job, they aren't legally coming within 1 mile of the place.
The party may want to hire an NPC bard just to convince the noble!!
Pielorinho
Iron Fist of Pelor
An alternate way to handle the buying and selling of goods:
Allow the PC and the merchant to make opposed diplomacy checks. Whoever wins the check can shift the price of the goods by 2% in their favor.
This gives a small but significant benefit to a high-diplomacy player: winning this check by 5 points won't be too tough, and will result in a nifty 10% discount on purchases (or a 10% bonus on sales).
Better shops, of course, will have better merchants. And better merchants excel at haggling.
The PCs can, of course, shop around. But if they leave a certain store because the prices are too high, and then come back to the store later, you may want to give the merchant a +2 "ha ha, you miserable hagglers, you return!" bonus on her diplomacy check.
Daniel
Allow the PC and the merchant to make opposed diplomacy checks. Whoever wins the check can shift the price of the goods by 2% in their favor.
This gives a small but significant benefit to a high-diplomacy player: winning this check by 5 points won't be too tough, and will result in a nifty 10% discount on purchases (or a 10% bonus on sales).
Better shops, of course, will have better merchants. And better merchants excel at haggling.
The PCs can, of course, shop around. But if they leave a certain store because the prices are too high, and then come back to the store later, you may want to give the merchant a +2 "ha ha, you miserable hagglers, you return!" bonus on her diplomacy check.
Daniel
Bonedagger
First Post
I like the idea of having charisma affecting the price of items. Most fantasy settings don't have the market structure we know in the modern world so it would be reasonable to have all merchants haggle the price of items. And in such a case it is weather you can convince the merchant that you know the true price of the item that counts (If you can convince him that what he thought was right is wrong....)
....... Hey. Haggle skill = Bluff skill
"That might have been the price up north but the adventures you meet on your way in just sold me this bunch of longswords (An old stock he plans to sell down south)... The only reason I'm still interested is because I hoped we could make a deal about that platemail. I tell you what. I'll buy this platemail and help you of with these swords for a 1000... That way we'll both be able to make a buck."
... Or something like that.
....... Hey. Haggle skill = Bluff skill
"That might have been the price up north but the adventures you meet on your way in just sold me this bunch of longswords (An old stock he plans to sell down south)... The only reason I'm still interested is because I hoped we could make a deal about that platemail. I tell you what. I'll buy this platemail and help you of with these swords for a 1000... That way we'll both be able to make a buck."
... Or something like that.
EOL
First Post
I've used the buying a selling trick in my campaign with some success. When the players try and get around it I explain a couple of things, first off I do allow the most charismatic player to sell all the loot, but when it comes to buy stuff, I tell them how often in real life has someone gone shopping for you? In general it's not in character for the more charismatic character to be the personal shopper for the less charismatic character...
