Charles Ryan on Adventures

[The Shaman]

I checked John Coopers reviews, because he always seems to find the mistakes in each book. All in all, 3rd party publishers seem to have their share of the same problem.

Based on that unscientific sample, I would say 3rd party production values are equally lacking, it's just that WotC is scrutinised harder and more often. I'd say they are at least as good as many of their competitors*.

* But of course, one could make the claim that they should be better than their competitors, since it is their own system.

If both WotC and third-party publishers suffer from similar problems in production values, then WotC's work is merely equally mediocre - either way, Mr. Ryan's claim rings false.

And if WotC's work gets scrutinized a little harder than anyone else's, well that's the burden of publishing under the most influential brand name (Dungeons and Dragons, not Wizards of the Coast) in the history of roleplaying games.

After I posted last night I had to drive to Home Depot to buy a new faucet aerator for the kitchen sink and I was thinking about this while I was driving. My first reaction on reading Mr. Ryan's quote was, "Wow, how incredibly arrogant!" In retrospect I think my reaction, while genuine, was a bit unfair.

I can respect that fact that Mr. Ryan takes pride in his work. What struck me wrong was that it seemed to be offered up as ineluctable fact rather than personal opinion - while conceding that this was a comment from an online chat transcript, not a press release, my experience tells me that Mr. Ryan is where he is because of his ability (among many others) to carefully tender the company line, so I'm less inclined to see this as an offhand comment. Had Mr. Ryan said, "I believe that we make the best hardcover sourcebooks," I know my reaction would've been different.

The other reason I think I had such a strong reaction is that, like Henry mentioned, I find so much of what comes from WotC to be inferior to the work from other publishers, and that seems to grow more and more each year. For me, the words "best" and "WotC" exist only in some sort of Bizarro World, at least if we're talking about the things that matter most to me as a gamer: slick glossy pages and well-stitched bindings are nice, and WotC's economy of scale certainly makes it a leader in the physical production of books, but at the end of the day a black-and-white .pdf with really solid rules and tons of inspiring ideas is "best" from where I sit.

What is "best" for me are the things that make my games fun to play, and in this regard there are far, far more misses than hits from WotC. In the past two years I've purchased two WotC books (out of a total of five, by the way) that made me say, "Wow, this is great!" (Frostburn and d20 Apocalypse). Otherwise I find their products to range from the simply mediocre to the laughably bad.

(Oh, and production values? I haven't seen anything from WotC that can touch Green Ronin's The Nocturnals sourcebook. Best. Gaming Book. Ever.)

Finally, I think it's too easy to dismiss ENWorlders as being some sort of anti-WotC elite. Certainly most ENWorlders are pretty dedicated, but I think that participation in an online community of gamers improves the ability to make critical evaluations - for example, I know that time spent here and on other bulletin boards improved my knowledge of how the mechanics function in d20, so that I can make more informed choices about the products I see and buy (or don't, as the case may be). If there's a tendency to be more critical of WotC, perhaps it comes from the fact that the posters on ENWorld tend to be a bit more knowledgeable than other gamers.

 

[Bagpuss]

Insulting one's competitors is (A bad thing). Anybody in sales knows this

Great way to drive the customer to the other guy.

Yeah, that's why you never see politicians using negative campaigning and washing powders never compare themselves with "another leading brand." :\

 

[Uder]

Yeah, that's why you never see politicians using negative campaigning and washing powders never compare themselves with "another leading brand." :\

Negative campaigning is known to cause people with extreme views to polarize, and to lose people on the edge to other side. It can be used by underdogs who don't have much to lose anyways, although for some reason it's getting more prevalent lately. Probably has more to do with unafilliated partisans and the newfound ease of publishing opinions ("submit reply button").

I don't know if I've seen too many commercials where they specifically call out a competitor's name in a long time. Why? There's a big fast-food chain that made that mistake once... and it supposedly cost them a lot of customers.

BUT! I don't think CR is insulting any competitors anyway. He'd have to specifically name someone for it to be an insult IMO. He's making a critique of 3rd-parties in general. We can all realize that it's therefore a generalization and doesn't include everyone hmmm?

 

[Pramas]

Please elaborate. I love GR, but I would not call them a DM-friendly company. There is just not enough support, although it looks like that may be changing with Thieves' World. We'll have to see.

I find the inference that d20 publishers would be in a better place if they had stuck to adventures funny because it's like criticizing the irrigation methods Vietnamese farmers after their fields have been napalmed.

As for Freeport's "lack of support", within the past three months there's been the following releases:
1) Freeport Trilogy 5-Year Anniversary Edition, which compiles, expands, and 3.5 updates the original Freeport adventures and adds a new short adventure to the mix as well.
http://www.greenronin.com/catalog/grr1901
2) Vengeance in Freeport, a PDF adventure that acts as a sequel to the Freeport Trilogy.
http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=4950&
3) Shadows in Freeport, an adventure in Goodman Games Dungeon Crawl Classics line written by Green Ronin's d20 line developer, Robert J Schwalb, and set in the City of Adventure.

Early next year we're releasing Crisis in Freeport (see below), a new mid-level adventure that finally resolves the succession crisis. Starting soon now you'll also see several new Freeport PDF adventures done under license by Adamant Entertainment.

Now all that is in addition to Creatures of Freeport, Denizens of Freeport, Tales of Freeport, Black Sails Over Freeport, Hell in Freeport, and of course Freeport: the City of Adventure. That's an awful of grist for the campaign mill.

Here's a sneak peak at Crisis in Freeport:

Crisis in Freeport
A d20 System Adventure for Characters Level 7-9
Written by Chris Pramas and Robert J. Schwalb
Format: 64 pages, perfect-bound
MSRP: $16.95
GRR1902
ISBN: 1-932442-56-1

Sea Lord Drac is dead but peace has not come to the City of Adventure. With no blood relative or named successor, Drac has created turmoil with his demise. Will the Captains' Council be able to maintain control or will Freeport erupt into a vicious civil war? As tensions rise, the PCs get entangled in the machinations of the succession crisis. Many covet the Sea Lord's power but only one can succeed the mad Milton Drac. Will the new Sea Lord return Freeport to its golden age or herald in a new era of terror?

 

[GVDammerung]

Charles: Unfortunately, over the past few years most of the d20 publishers decided that it was better for their business to compete directly with us, and abandoned adventures in favor of sourcebooks of the sort we already make (and make better than anyone else).

(Remember, from where I sit, I see the entire d20 spectrum--not just the companies that do well enough to develop a vocal following on EN World.) Those twenty have choked the RPG supply chain with product that doesn't move because it doesn't address a need or do anything better than what we do.

The key to a healthy gaming marketplace is a diversified portfolio--a range of products offered to the consumer that cover all of his or her needs, with just enough duplication to ensure healthy competition. The d20 community, as a whole, hasn't delivered. (And again, this isn't a slam on any company that is delivering!) That results in A) a hole that WotC is now going to fill, and B) a d20 industry that's really struggling.

(1) d20 publishers are "competing" with Wotc, not producing adventures like they were supposed to;

(2) Wotc makes the best products;

(3) Wotc knows all and sees all in the d20 marketplace;

(4) "The d20 community, as a whole, has not delivered."

(5) The d20 industry is "struggling."

. . .Mr. Ryan's statement makes it look like WotC views 3rd party publishers as competitors now, not allies. This makes me concerned that perhaps WotC, if it releases 4th edition, might not make it open content, . . .

Kudos to the perceptive Ranger!

::best Scooby-Doo voice:: "Ruh-roh"

 

[Uder]

I find the inference that d20 publishers would be in a better place if they had stuck to adventures funny because it's like criticizing the irrigation methods Vietnamese farmers after their fields have been napalmed.

Respect for Pramas, waning...

Please, tell me who did the napalming of the d20 fields, and who initially planted the seeds? This is more like sharecroppers refusing to rotate their crops and ruining their leasors lands.

 

[Psion]

Actually, I get the sense that Wizards does not enter the Ennies because they feel that ENWorlders will not give them a chance. Certainly, this thread seems to point to that scenario.

Quite the contrary. Everyone has their favorite company, but WotC is the one company everyone knows. Due to their market penetration, WotC always will have a huge advantage in the fan vote.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

(1) d20 publishers are "competing" with Wotc, not producing adventures like they were supposed to;

(2) Wotc makes the best products;

(3) Wotc knows all and sees all in the d20 marketplace;

(4) "The d20 community, as a whole, has not delivered."

(5) The d20 industry is "struggling."

I think that of these five points, all but #2 are pretty clearly accurate, and #2 is arguably accurate (an argument can be made against it, but an equally valid argument can be made for it). I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

1) of course they're competing. This may or may not be a good idea, but they are absolutely competing.
2) see above.
3) They're the only ones who do serious market research. They may not know all (and Charles Ryan didn't claim they did) but I think it's safe to say they have a better overall picture than anyone else does.
4) and 5) work together. If the d20 community is struggling, it almost by definition must not be delivering. I suppose you could argue that they are providing exactly what the market wants, but still struggling, but then you have to explain WoTC's big sales numbers in some way.

 

[Cthulhu's Librarian]

Freeport. A great setting that a lot of people love. There were five adventures printed and nothing new (other than PDF) in well over a year.

Shadows in Freeport is available in print as well as PDF. http://goodmangames.com/5019preview.php

Regarding the Ennies, isn't there are rule for submissions that you have to have a ceratain amount of open content in the d20 categories?

Which would rule out WotC entering. I don't know, but someone might know, didn't find the submission guidelines.

No. The ENnies are (and have been the past 2 years) open to any and all RPG publishers. WotC would have been eligible for competing in any and all cateogries they felt appropriate, had they entered. We were told (by Mr. Ryan) that they would not be participating when we asked them to enter their best books.

 

[philreed]

Now all that is in addition to Creatures of Freeport, Denizens of Freeport, Tales of Freeport, Black Sails Over Freeport, Hell in Freeport, and of course Freeport: the City of Adventure. That's an awful of grist for the campaign mill.

And Treasures of Freeport.

Plus I know that there's more Freeport stuff coming. From here it looks pretty well supported.