Charles Ryan on Adventures

BelenUmeria said:
Please elaborate. I love GR, but I would not call them a DM-friendly company. There is just not enough support, although it looks like that may be changing with Thieves' World. We'll have to see.

Depends on what you're looking at; the Mutants and Masterminds line they produced is supported as much as any WotC product; heck, it's supported more than Eberron at the current time (having a drop on Eberron by two years, admittedly). Also, thanks to the Superlink license, there's a good bit of extra material in the chain for adventures, NPCs, and new powers, too.

Charles Ryan was likely putting a little marketing into his response to Merric, which I don't have a problem with, as well as his personal opinion, which is cool; I just disagree like crazy with the assertion that WotC does supplements in general better than anyone else, if you're talking actual content. In production values, maybe - even then, there are two or three top companies that rival them, though it costs them a LOT more to do so than WotC. In content, however, I've seen far more innovative developments, usable ideas, and creative elements that I can use from AEG, Green Ronin, Blue Devil Games, and EN Publishing than I have WotC.

I've been personally unimpressed enough with the WotC material from this year (Stormwrack, Incarnum, Lords of Madness, Weapons of Legacy, etc.) that I just haven't bought them, and to be honest, from my glimpses of Five Nations, Explorer's Handbook, and Races of Eberron in the bookstore, they don't have enough innovative material to make me want to buy them. (I bought Races of Eberron and returned it because it really didn't have enough new story material to make me want to keep it. I have NO use for the Lifeforged, the Warforged items, the racially bound prestige classes, etc.)

On the other hand, what have i kept? Arcana Evolved (running a game with it now), Black Company (bought it in March, and even ran a few games with it), Spycraft 2.0 (hesitant about running as-is, but planning to strip it for items and ideas in other games), and Poisoncraft (this one is older, but I bought it because I needed a poison reference, and this one stomps on anything else out there, FLAT.) Compare this to WotC's previous offerings, everything from Call of Cthulhu d20, to the Splatbooks, to recently the Complete Warrior/Divine/Arcane/Adventurer, and the excellent Draconomicon, Libris Mortis, and Eberron Core book. In my experience, I've been finding LESS in the WotC line, and more in the other publishers. (one exception: DMG 2. One bright spot in a year of so far unoriginality. That book's first chapter by Robin was worth the whole book, plus the parts on PCs running businesses, the challenging environments, and the magical locations. Even if I never use those rather unoriginal magic items in the back, the rest of the bookwas quite golden.)

However, I DO agree with Belen Umeria that third party support as a whole is lacking. Not only are companies not supporting some very good concepts, but they are jumping from one to the other looking for the "killer app" among gamers. One thing I also wish would happen more is cross-over works. The kind of joined effort I used to see with things like the Bluffside efforts, the Diamond Throne support from Fiery Dragon and Ironwind Metals, etc. is one way for smaller companies to pool their efforts and look and perform as if "bigger."

DO I have a negative opinion of WotC? No, of course not, because (1) I have high hopes now that they've hired someone like Mike Mearls on the Developing team; maybe we'll see ideas that work a bit better, and I'll find things from them I like again. and also (2) like all cycles, I'm sure it'll swing back around to things I do like again. But saying WotC does it "better than everyone else" I'll take umbrage with, when I see the past six months worth of releases that offer very little to me.
 

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Henry said:
Charles Ryan was likely putting a little marketing into his response to Merric, which I don't have a problem with, as well as his personal opinion, which is cool; I just disagree like crazy with the assertion that WotC does supplements in general better than anyone else, if you're talking actual content. In production values, maybe - even then, there are two or three top companies that rival them, though it costs them a LOT more to do so than WotC. In content, however, I've seen far more innovative developments, usable ideas, and creative elements that I can use from AEG, Green Ronin, Blue Devil Games, and EN Publishing than I have WotC.

Is it your opinion that innovative, usable ideas and creative ideas mean better products? Because I think that there's a loooong way between a great idea, innovation, whatever and a great RPG product. I'd think that most people are looking for solid material that's made easy for them to use and implement in games. ENWorlds crowd, I think, steers more towards the crowd that doesn't use the products "as is" as much as they mine stuff for ideas for their own games.

This might be a reason why WotC guys idea of the best product clashes so much with the ENWorld crowd.
 

I wonder if they are going to start tinkering with the format of adventures? Most adventures follows the same formula; background, synopsis, dungeon, appendix. Boxed text presentation of every encouter and so on. What if the module was presented as a comic?

The rules of Wizards latest submit-a-scenario challenge does seem to reinforce the old and tried format but you never know. Besides, why can't you publish modules aimed at players to buy?
 

Numion said:
I'd think that most people are looking for solid material that's made easy for them to use and implement in games...This might be a reason why WotC guys idea of the best product clashes so much with the ENWorld crowd.

I agree, which is why I say nothing about Stormwrack's, Races of Eberron's, or Explorer's Handbook sales figures (I'm sure they still sold far more than any competitor's product). But to talk about sales, you're talking about exposure and availability. Often I see complaints on WotC's forums from people who steer clear of d20 products without even looking at them, yet complain:

Why doesn't WotC make better rules on Mass combat?
Why doesn't WotC have good rules on making Poisons?
Why doesn't WotC have books of Generic NPCs?
Why doesn't WotC make more stuff for Modern Adventures?


A blind eye is often turned simply because they don't know that the answers to their needs are not found solely with WotC, turning away some spectacular product that answers their questions.

Just as Charles has the opinion, "Nobody does supplements better than us," I have the opinion, "Some people are doing supplements WotC's NEVER DONE."

In one sense, I'm glad that WotC hasn't entered the Ennies in recent years, because there's so much good material that goes overlooked because it doesn't have the WotC stamp.
 


BelenUmeria said:
I do not pay attention to PDF. Not to mention that PDF only serves the people who bother with chasing down the information and a desire to be knowdegeable about the industry.

PDF is a lame way to support your lines.


I disagree. PDF is an excellent way to support your line to customers who are...

1. Online savy.

2. Small customer base.

3. Products that may be part of a print compilation latter.

I'm not saying PDF's are for everyone but they do serve a purpose and some products, even from some of the better known companies, wouldn't be possible without them.
 

Henry said:
In one sense, I'm glad that WotC hasn't entered the Ennies in recent years, because there's so much good material that goes overlooked because it doesn't have the WotC stamp.

Actually, I get the sense that Wizards does not enter the Ennies because they feel that ENWorlders will not give them a chance. Certainly, this thread seems to point to that scenario. And the Ennies suffer a seriously legitimacy issue because Wizards does not enter.
 

Henry said:
However, I DO agree with Belen Umeria that third party support as a whole is lacking. Not only are companies not supporting some very good concepts, but they are jumping from one to the other looking for the "killer app" among gamers. One thing I also wish would happen more is cross-over works. The kind of joined effort I used to see with things like the Bluffside efforts, the Diamond Throne support from Fiery Dragon and Ironwind Metals, etc. is one way for smaller companies to pool their efforts and look and perform as if "bigger."

I have zero confidence in 3rd party publishers to support any of their "D&D/d20" lines. For instance, Midnight is a world I love, but you really need direction to break the normal D&D style of playing. There has been 2 adventures for that setting.

Freeport. A great setting that a lot of people love. There were five adventures printed and nothing new (other than PDF) in well over a year.

At least Wizards supports the people who buy in to their games and worlds.
 

JoeGKushner said:
I disagree. PDF is an excellent way to support your line to customers who are...

1. Online savy.

2. Small customer base.

3. Products that may be part of a print compilation latter.

I'm not saying PDF's are for everyone but they do serve a purpose and some products, even from some of the better known companies, wouldn't be possible without them.

Sure...they are a good way to support their ENWorlder fanbase, but not everyone is an ENWorlder. However, RPGNow does not even pop up on google if you search for "Freeport Adventures."

PDF is a sad way to support your fanbase, especially for lines that have been printed. For instance, my wife ran Freeport as her first ever campaign a few years ago. We all loved it, but nothing new was printed and it died when she was out of material.

If you cannot support your lines, people will stop using them.
 

BelenUmeria said:
Actually, I get the sense that Wizards does not enter the Ennies because they feel that ENWorlders will not give them a chance. Certainly, this thread seems to point to that scenario. And the Ennies suffer a seriously legitimacy issue because Wizards does not enter.

I wish that they would enter, because other publishers would win or lose based on their own merits and not by some perceived "handicapping" like some people have insinuated in past years. The biggest problem is that many voters will vote just because they know of a product, not because they've compared them. On the other hand, the new voting system used for the Ennies assauges that somewhat, so it's not the problem it was.

As for ENWorlders not giving them a chance? 90% of the conversation here is almost solely about WotC products, good, bad, and ugly. The traffic on the d20 Systems forum is a fraction of the General and Rules traffic.
 

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