Charles Ryan on Adventures

BelenUmeria said:
Actually, I get the sense that Wizards does not enter the Ennies because they feel that ENWorlders will not give them a chance. Certainly, this thread seems to point to that scenario. And the Ennies suffer a seriously legitimacy issue because Wizards does not enter.

I of course do not know for sure why Wizards does not enter the ENnies these days, someone closer to the ENnies might know. I do know that when they entered in 2002 there certainly didn't seem to be any prejudice towards them from EN World.
 

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MerricB said:
. . . Charles: As many people on these boards know, when third edition and the d20 License launched, we thought a lot of third parties would see adventures for D&D as a great opportunity. . . . Unfortunately, over the past few years most of the d20 publishers decided that it was better for their business to compete directly with us, and abandoned adventures in favor of sourcebooks of the sort we already make (and make better than anyone else).

"etter than anyone else?" :lol: Only if you just turn the glossy colorful pages and look at the pretty pictures. If you _read_ the material, a slightly less condescendingly rosy picture emerges, much more of a mixed bag.

"[C]ompete directly with us?" ::best Scooby-Doo voice:: "Ruh-roh!" :uhoh:
 

CharlesRyan said:
<big snip for space>
Compare that to a typical adventure: A creative, talented author with a good idea, a solid grasp of D&D, and a few thousand bucks can put out a really good adventure--perhaps as good or better than anything we can do. Aside from our brand, all of our competitive advantage is neutralized in this category.
<more snipping>

The key to a healthy gaming marketplace is a diversified portfolio--a range of products offered to the consumer that cover all of his or her needs, with just enough duplication to ensure healthy competition. The d20 community, as a whole, hasn't delivered. (And again, this isn't a slam on any company that is delivering!) That results in A) a hole that WotC is now going to fill, and B) a d20 industry that's really struggling. Which is what I said in my original reply to Merric.

Okay, I have several comments for a thread that is probably close to getting closed soon based on some of the posts I have scanned through.

First, WotC IS the big kid on the block. They have the best sales, distribution, production values (in terms of printing, printing materials, etc.) and best name with retailers. Those of you that want to argue that there are "better" 3rd party products can do so. This is a business, WotC is in first place and, while there are others in the game, second place is pretty far back. I don't know many freelancers that would turn down an opportunity to work on a product for WotC, I know I wouldn't. Keep in mind that however large you believe the ENWorl community is, it is a tiny fish in a big ocean. The opinions here are NOT representative of the product-buying whole.

Second, "Aside from our brand, all of our competitive advantage is neutralized in this category." Re-quoted from above. Charles, you let Necromancer Games slap the official "Dungeons and Dragons" logo on our next adventure and let us help you determine how much that "brand" is really worth. I am thinking it can only increase our sales by say, 25-100 times the usual.

The DnD logo is HUGE. After some companies (that don't exist anymore) put out some horrible adventures it got REALLY difficult to get picked up by retailers and distributors. You have the DnD logo, distributors will carry you and bookstores will pick up the book and customers will buy it simply due to the logo.

3rd party companies with a focus on adventures have several problems.
First, we can't compete with Dungeon magazine for short adventures, plain and simple. Dungeon prints 4-color, uses quality color art (even though I don't like all of it) and has quality material (for the most part).
Second, distribution; it is hard to get picked up by distributors. Guys like Joe Goodman (who does this full-time) have to spend lots of time making certain retailers and distributors pick them up. He also does a number of other books that help maintain a good relationship with distributors and retailers. Retailers want books large enough to have the title on the spine, this means at least 96 pages. They simply don't have retail space to display you cover out after the first week-3weeks of release.
Third, the reason that many 3rd party companies focus on other material is that for the same effort as creating an adventure, other supplement material can make you more money and sell more books.

Notice my 3rd point. It isn't that adventures DO NOT make money, it is simply the fact that other material makes MORE money for the SAME effort. If you are running a business and employing people full-time (like Mongoose and Green Ronin as two examples), you have an obligation to your employees (and probably your family as well) to focus on the products that are going to earn more money. Notice that both of these companies are publishing (or planning to publish) adventure material, it simply isn't the main focus of either. I am sure people are going to argue with the idea of feeling obligated to earn as much money as possible, run a business and employ people dependant on your business for the $ to feed their families (not just your own) and you might have a different perspective.

Finally, I would agree that some d20 companies are "struggling" but I am not certain I would extend that to the whole market nor even to RPGs as a whole. One of my LGS's has told me that they have had higher sales on RPGs the past 6 months than anything else they sell in the store, something that hasn't happened since 3e first came out.

Patrick (one of those other Necromancer Games' Guys)
 

PatrickLawinger said:
Finally, I would agree that some d20 companies are "struggling" but I am not certain I would extend that to the whole market nor even to RPGs as a whole. One of my LGS's has told me that they have had higher sales on RPGs the past 6 months than anything else they sell in the store, something that hasn't happened since 3e first came out.

Patrick (one of those other Necromancer Games' Guys)

I think that part of the trouble with Necromancer is that they publish adventures with other logos on them such as Troll Lord, Sword/Sorcery etc. It is really hard for my game store to know when you guys have something produced. I actually have to send them a list of companies and specific necromancer products so that they carry you.

People love your stuff, but I think it is slightly confusing for less than savvy store owners.
 

BelenUmeria said:
I think that part of the trouble with Necromancer is that they publish adventures with other logos on them such as Troll Lord, Sword/Sorcery etc. It is really hard for my game store to know when you guys have something produced. I actually have to send them a list of companies and specific necromancer products so that they carry you.

People love your stuff, but I think it is slightly confusing for less than savvy store owners.

NG is more focused on creating products than taking care of the "other stuff." This means that Bill and Clark make agreements with other companies to take care of "fulfillment." This means NG's publishing partners assume some of the risk (and profits) and agree to take care of layout, assigning artwork, printing, warehousing, and delivery/distribution.

We are working on getting better about letting retailers and distributors know who we are.

Thanks,
Patrick
 


Let me also jump on the wagon of "give us a year with the D&D logo on our products." Maybe have a review panel, and only allow 2 products a month to get the logo. But I imagine the folks who got the nod from WotC would be buying some extra dice with their spoils.

Or, y'know, blowing it on cocaine. I don't know what the other designers do, but I can't resist a good hit of the C.
 

PatrickLawinger said:
Second, "Aside from our brand, all of our competitive advantage is neutralized in this category." Re-quoted from above. Charles, you let Necromancer Games slap the official "Dungeons and Dragons" logo on our next adventure and let us help you determine how much that "brand" is really worth. I am thinking it can only increase our sales by say, 25-100 times the usual.

The DnD logo is HUGE. After some companies (that don't exist anymore) put out some horrible adventures it got REALLY difficult to get picked up by retailers and distributors. You have the DnD logo, distributors will carry you and bookstores will pick up the book and customers will buy it simply due to the logo.

In terms of the brand, Kenzer uses it and I don't hear about them being the 2nd largest leader in the industry. Ravenloft used it and I believe it's no longer being supported. I'm not saying that it's useless, just that more seems to be attributed to it here than it's actually worth.
 

IronWolf said:
I of course do not know for sure why Wizards does not enter the ENnies these days, someone closer to the ENnies might know. I do know that when they entered in 2002 there certainly didn't seem to be any prejudice towards them from EN World.

But when they won, some people complained that they were bastards for entering. :D

/m
 

Regarding the Ennies, isn't there are rule for submissions that you have to have a ceratain amount of open content in the d20 categories?

Which would rule out WotC entering. I don't know, but someone might know, didn't find the submission guidelines.

/M
 

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