Cheating - who cares?

[swrushing]

.[/QUOTE]

I've already addressed the topic of social lubricant. See my reply upthread for a nice definition of cheating - the cheating being discussed is most assuredly not social lubricant; it's violating the rules to the benefit of someone and the deteriment of others. Go back and re-read what I posted, please - I said it's the best (most ideal) policy, but not necessarily the most expedient.
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The definition you bolded above was... 2. To violate rules deliberately, as in a game

I am fine with that definition of cheating.

that doesn't however say a thing about either the benefit of one or the detriment of others.

thats the subject in part of the debate and the disagreement here.

some believe cheating in and of itself is a detriment to others. some don't.
some believe it isn't cheating unless it is done for benefit. some don't.

i beliebe cheating is what you posted, a violation of rules done deliberately.
I also believ that can be done for harm or for good of others and that one is definitely wrong while the other isn't.

i have cheated many times and almost always for the benefit of others. Whether it be undervaluing my shields in SFb so the guy fighting me "did some damage" and did not feel completely skunked, or throwing a kill opportunity so the most dramatically appropriate PC gets the kill... its produced good results and I would laugh if someone decided to kick me out over it.

What extremes? I advocate removing a potential problem before it becomes an actual social issue, instead of allowing a cheat to end up angering everyone else at the table, including myself.
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I advocate different options which don't begin from a hit the door perspective.

we differ a lot on this subject, which is fine.

 

[Harmon]

How to cheat & my rant about it

It annoys me when people constantly role well and never fail.

I know Players that their mood dictates their cheating- bad mood then dice roll bad, good mood good rolling and you can see it coming which annoys everyone.

Rolling lots of times then pointing out- "oh, I will take that roll, its a 20- look I rolled it, honest," ya, after you rolled 400 times you should get at least one 20. Come on just roll the dice, snag it up and say its a 20- if you are going to cheat then do so.

Roll where no one can see you and that way you roll as you like- oh, come on, just roll and say you rolled a 20- use a little slight of hand.

Rolling is an honor system thing, trust your fellow Players or have the GM roll for everyone so he can cheat for whom ever he likes.



End of my rant (no really).

 

[Crothian]

I don't see why people cheat at RPGs. THere is no win scenerio so cheating doesn't get one any closer to it.

 

[Umbran]

I don't see why people cheat at RPGs. THere is no win scenerio so cheating doesn't get one any closer to it.

There is no overall "win", but there are still successes and failures. There's living and dying. There's beating teh monster and not. There's being the biggest damage-dealer and there's being a wimp...

Any time there's an achievement that can be made, a goal reached, or an ego to stroke, there'll be someone willing to cheat at least a bit to do it. That's just human nature.

 

[Lord Mhoram]

It irks me. To me it is something of a break of the social contract of gaming.

But I usually address it in a such a way "If someone is pathetic enough to need to cheat is a casual game, then let them." I've used similar comments playing cards.. I said that to a magic player in one game, at the shop I worked at, in responce to cutting the deck. I found out later that the person had been cheating (I didn't know) and that after my comment they felt so embarresed they stopped.

 

[prosfilaes]

I'm saying it isn't my place. If I see someone going 5 miles over the speed limit, and I call 911 to report him, I'm actually doing harm instead of good.

What about harassing the person you're with who's driving over the speed limit?

This is the equivalent of watching another group's game and complaining about someone cheating. It isn't my place.

No, if you're in his vehicle, or even driving on the same road, his actions could pose a direct risk to your life. You're an active member in this life and death "game".

If the DM lets one player cheat, he now has to let the other players cheat or he's now playing favorites. So, when I cheat, if he calls me on it, I have to wonder why he's letting someone else get away with it.

You're responsible for your own behavior. If it's a bunch of friends, and one of them isn't mature enough to play without cheating, I would say this misguided concept of fairness is causing as much problems as the cheating. In social groups, sometimes you overlook other people's annoying quirks because confronting them about it is just going to cause problems and possibly lose the friend.

Maybe it's a big enough annoying quirk that you couldn't put up with it. But I feel that's more of a personal choice than a moral decision.

It's not about some kind of battle the DM is engaging in! What's the Player going to do? Respond with "Well I can cheat if I want to?"

Say he's not going to do it again and keep on doing it, forcing you to escalate or keeping bitching about the same problem? Complain loudly about your "unfounded accusations", start a screaming match and storm out? Many people feel it's easier to overlook the cheating then try and deal with it head-on.

 

[the Jester]

To me, cheating = lying to the rest of the group = Very Bad Form.

 

[iwatt]

I voted 44 times, probably throwing off your results.

But... it was all in good fun.

Do you care?

This has been the best post yet in this thread.

And just in case you were actually asking me if I cared....

No

 

[Gundark]

Ugh...I can't answer this question. What is minor cheating? I wouldn't mind a fudge here and there, but something that the player does all the time even if it's "minor" I would talk to the person about it.

 

[iwatt]

Ugh...I can't answer this question. What is minor cheating? I wouldn't mind a fudge here and there, but something that the player does all the time even if it's "minor" I would talk to the person about it.

which is exactly the point many of us are trying to make:

"If the cheating isn't affecting your enjoyment, why bother making a fuss about it."