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WinnableBadger

Explorer
So, I have been first to a couple of these now, but have refrained from posting a page number because I have been unsure what to grab. Does anyone have any ideas?
 


Stalker0

Legend
So the fighter looks like its got some interesting new stuff....you can now specialize in manuevers (which I am guessing is a fighter only thing, or maybe only outside of feats).

Martial legacy is a really interesting ability. I always like the abilities that help a high level character transition into the "stuff of legends" motiff, aka the martial master on the hill. As a class ability, on the one hand you have some other martials in the group and its seems like you could quickly load them up with some maneuvers. But if not, this ability could literally be a ribbon
 

So the fighter looks like its got some interesting new stuff....you can now specialize in manuevers (which I am guessing is a fighter only thing, or maybe only outside of feats).

Martial legacy is a really interesting ability. I always like the abilities that help a high level character transition into the "stuff of legends" motiff, aka the martial master on the hill. As a class ability, on the one hand you have some other martials in the group and its seems like you could quickly load them up with some maneuvers. But if not, this ability could literally be a ribbon
Yep. Although it's something I'd also see adepts doing.

But Warmaster seems seriously underwhelming:
- We don't know what mastering a combat maneuver means yet. I hope it's cool and balances the point below
- Choosing a maneuver up to level 3 to be used without spending effort is cool. Until you see that the ranger can do so at level 9 (flash of steel, which gives the level 3 maneuvers whirlwind attack or volley) and eventually again at level 15 with the warden subclass (ride enemy, 1st level manuver)
- Finishing blow is also very cool, but for 1/rest is more of a ribbon than an actual capstone. The capstones of the adept are much stronger imo: deathblow is "on hit, turn into a crit for max damage 1/rest". Finishing blow can do so only if the hit is already a crit, so you can just decide to use it to hit once, out of desperation. It's more flexible, sure, but on a hit Deathblow allows you to turn a hit into a maxxed crit, which you cannot do with Finishing blow [Edit: there's the fear effect, on top, which is cool and the adept doesn't have. Maybe this evens things out a bit, but the point above is of great concern to me]
 
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Stalker0

Legend
Yep. Although it's something I'd also see adepts doing.

But Warmaster seems seriously underwhelming:
- We don't know what mastering a combat maneuver means yet. I hope it's cool and balances the point below
- Choosing a maneuver up to level 3 to be used without spending effort is cool. Until you see that the ranger can do so at level 9 (flash of steel, which gives the level 3 maneuvers whirlwind attack or volley) and eventually again at level 15 with the warden subclass (ride enemy, 1st level manuver)
- Finishing blow is also very cool, but for 1/rest is more of a ribbon than an actual capstone. The capstones of the adept are much stronger imo: deathblow is "on hit, turn into a crit for max damage 1/rest". Finishing blow can do so only if the hit is already a crit, so you can just decide to use it to hit once, out of desperation. It's more flexible, sure, but on a hit Deathblow allows you to turn a hit into a maxxed crit, which you cannot do with Finishing blow [Edit: there's the fear effect, on top, which is cool and the adept doesn't have. Maybe this evens things out a bit, but the point above is of great concern to me]
The trick is we have to compare the two abilities together vs the other two abilities.

Your right that in general I consider Death Blow superior to Finishing Blow. However, Perfection Achieved seems a pretty lackluster ability, and depending on how Maneuver specializations work, Master of Combat may be a very solid ability.

Aka a strong ability + an okay one may = two solid abilities.
 

The trick is we have to compare the two abilities together vs the other two abilities.

Your right that in general I consider Death Blow superior to Finishing Blow. However, Perfection Achieved seems a pretty lackluster ability, and depending on how Maneuver specializations work, Master of Combat may be a very solid ability.

Aka a strong ability + an okay one may = two solid abilities.
Yes, but do you agree that giving as part of a capstone feature something that another class (that is supposed to be NOT a master of maneuvers), can get at level 9 is seriously underwhelming for the fighter?
 

Stalker0

Legend
Yes, but do you agree that giving as part of a capstone feature something that another class (that is supposed to be NOT a master of maneuvers), can get at level 9 is seriously underwhelming for the fighter?
No, because:

1) We still have no idea what manuever specialization does. That may be so cool that the other piece is practically a ribbon in comparison.
2) Considering the fighter's wealth of manuevers, there may be so insanely good combos by choosing other manuevers. Whirlwind and Volley Attack are very good, but they are limited in what circumstances make them useful. Other manuevers I may want to spam much more heavily. Take for example the Adamant Mountain manuever that lets me heal.....I may now be able to heal to full all of the time....that's pretty sweet. We just don't know what all of the possibilities are.
 

niklinna

satisfied?
The only issue I see with Martial Legacy is that basically it's granting abilities to the other martials on your team, essentially once, and not to the fighter themself. It doesn't give the fighter something to do, ongoing, during encounters or exploration. You're not going to learn that many more maneuvers to teach others, after all.
 

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