D&D General Chris just said why I hate wizard/fighter dynamic

[Mannahnin]

It's like preferring a Jackie Chan movie or a wuxia martial arts movie. The former may be a stretch because it requires choreography and multiple takes but it's still "real" in the sense that wuxia doesn't even attempt to be. As you said it's just a value judgement. I'm okay with my fighter being some version of Die Hard's McCain*, I don't want things that are obviously supernatural.

There are other games (and other editions of D&D (that go there, I want the option of playing an action movie hero.

*The guy should have ended up in the hospital many, many times.

John McClane is an interesting example of an action hero doing things that D&D characters may or may not be able to do. His ability to sustain lots of physical punishment but keep going is very like having a lot of hit points.

Many of the other feats of action heroes, including Jackie Chan, are very much like things a D&D character could do on a lucky roll (say John McClane using the fire hose to escape the rooftop explosion). For my part, these "miracle chance" maneuvers should be the bread & butter stock-in-trade of high level D&D fighters and rogues and such. They are just that epic and awesome, that they can do these kind of things reliably. Or intimidate a foe into dropping their weapon. Or taunt them into charging (saving throw allowed; no one said automatic). And so forth.

 

[Vaalingrade]

i know if I can cover my bread for french toast she could have covered him

PSA: Always double-dip your babies. Or use a spider.

 

[HammerMan]

Are marines super?

Don't let the other branches answer.

I belive that a D&D fighter could go through airforce or national guard boot...

 

[Micah Sweet]

It really doesn't.

All it requires is for people to stop thinking of martial as mundane. 5e has plenty of existing mechanics to make it happen - superiority dice being just one example.

If you want people to just stop feeling the way they feel, you may be in for a long wait.

 

[Oofta]

Steel-like skin for Achilles was magic though, right? And Luke is great, but he's no Thor. Or 616 Hercules.

The mundane martial would be more like Odysseus, right.

Luke also has superhuman strength and endurance even if he is at the lower end of the spectrum. But there's a vast array of mythical heroes, much like a vast array of superheroes. You get everything from Luke to Superman superheroes and mythical heroes like Achilles to Paul Bunyun who dug one of the great lakes for his ox. To me there's a distinction between even the over the top action heroes that Dwayne Jonson plays and street level superheroes like Jessica Jones.

Ultimately though for me, it's a question of "can I envision it as something that I would see in an action movie". In terms of myth, is this a mythical hero or a hero who had a mythical journey? A bit over the top? Sure. Able to leap 60 feet with a running start while wearing plate mail? Not so much.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I explicitly said not to take their toys.

Or remove them wholesale as my petty revenge for the 5e playtest.

I know you didn't, but there are several here who seem to want exactly that. Sorry for not making clear that part of my response wasn't directed at you.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Or just a new iteration of the same game.

At this point, I'm on the cusp of arguing that every edition of D&D is a different game.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I'm okay with

• Increased movement
• Super jumps
• Physical immunities
• Bypassing immunity or resistance
• Breaking anything
• Muli-part reactions

For myself, I am in the mostly "mundane" camp for martials, because that is what distinguishes them from casters.

Now, as I've mentioned, I am fine with stretching the limits, but with your list it then becomes an issue of "by how much"? I think (or hope at least) for the sake of compromise, most "mundanies" like me would be happy with more, just not way more.

Increased movement? Double? Triple?
Super jumps? Same...
Physical immunities? The narrative creates a lot of this for myself, anyway. Grew up in the high mountains or arctic, so you have resistance and (maybe) at higher levels immunity to cold? Sounds okay to me. Have immunity to radiant damage? How??? Begins to sound like it is part of an origin story or it becomes too magical for my tastes...
Bypassing immunity or resistance? Though "incredible skill"? Resistance sure, but by the time you get into bypassing immunity it again might be too much...
Break anything? Really, anything? Probably not. Toppling a pillar to bring down a roof? Sure. Snapping a magical sword with your bare hands, nope.
Mult-part reactions? No clue, do you have an example???

 

[MichaelSomething]

It's like preferring a Jackie Chan movie or a wuxia martial arts movie. The former may be a stretch because it requires choreography and multiple takes but it's still "real" in the sense that wuxia doesn't even attempt to be. As you said it's just a value judgement. I'm okay with my fighter being some version of Die Hard's McCain*, I don't want things that are obviously supernatural.

Can Jackie Chan or John McCain fight a Dragon? Or a T-Rex?

 

[Vaalingrade]

At this point, I'm on the cusp of arguing that every edition of D&D is a different game.

There has never been a true game of D&D outside of Gary's table. We are all heretics.

There. now we can stop trying to define true D&D.