D&D General Chris just said why I hate wizard/fighter dynamic

[Jefe Bergenstein]

You want nonmagical mind control. Got it.

Narrative control. Learn to deal with it. Flavoring a plot coupon as a spell doesnt make it inherently more "realistic".

 

[Cadence]

Look, its clear from this thread some people want their fighter to be a chump. They are fine with mediocrity and sidekick status. They shouldnt get to hamper the design of a mythic martial designed to be on par with casters because the class wouldnt be for them!

I don't think it's that they want to be a chump. I think it's that they want to be Conan of Fafhrd or Cugel or Boromir without having to become Captain America or Black Panther and then moving on to Thor. And they'd like to not have to stop at 8th level to do it.

On the other hand some folks want to jump from Harry Potter year 1 to Dr. Strange in six months with no special magical training or practice, by killing goblins and taking their treasure. ;-)

 

[TwoSix]

Okay... but to the degree that spell allows? I mean it is 8 HOURS, advantage on attacks and saves, as well as disadvantage on people attacking you. That goes well beyond anything I've seen, especially for the trope.

Now, a limited version, certainly, but not to the power of the spell. It might be something you want, but that would be so out of bounds for me I wouldn't even entertain it!

What's the difference between a 1/day ability a 17th level fighter can use and a 17th wizard can use? To my mind, getting advantage on attacks and saves is exactly the sort of stuff a Tier 4 warrior should be able to pull off.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I don't think it's that they want to be a chump. I think it's that they want to be Conan of Fafhrd or Cugel or Boromir without having to become Captain America or Black Panther and then moving on to Thor. And they'd like to not have to stop at 8th level to do it.

On the other hand some folks want to jump from Harry Potter year 1 to Dr. Strange in six months with no special magical training or practice, by killing goblins and taking their treasure. ;-)

Yep, that pretty much nails it.

 

[DND_Reborn]

What's the difference between a 1/day ability a 17th level fighter can use and a 17th wizard can use? To my mind, getting advantage on attacks and saves is exactly the sort of stuff a Tier 4 warrior should be able to pull off.

Because that 9th level spell is the caster's big deal at that point. Subclass features and class features for (many, admittedly not all!) martials is their "thing" in place of that. What are you going to give up for your Fighter or other martial to get that ability? Survivor, Extra Attack (2 or 3), Primal Champion, what?

Again, I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement for martials (I've said that there is in many threads...), but IMO that is a bit too much. If it works for you fine, I asked after all.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It's not just Eberron. Adventure in Greyhawk, forgotten realms, ravenloft? You're near certainb to have a full caster in the group.

It doesn't matter how rare casters are in the setting. It matters how rare they are among PCs. And you'll get one in the party, unless there are rules preventing it

It doesn't matter in game play (which i assume is what you're focusing on), but it does mean your explanation isn't necessarily valid. Story matters, and if you want to make a big change, you need an in-universe reason that people will accept. If that means to you that I believe, "fighters can't have nice things", then so be it.

 

[Scribe]

I don't think it's that they want to be a chump. I think it's that they want to be Conan of Fafhrd or Cugel or Boromir without having to become Captain America or Black Panther and then moving on to Thor. And they'd like to not have to stop at 8th level to do it.

On the other hand some folks want to jump from Harry Potter year 1 to Dr. Strange in six months with no special magical training or practice, by killing goblins and taking their treasure. ;-)

Exactly this.

 

[Micah Sweet]

We are discussing methods for martials to get benefits outside of magic, and if it's desirable. that IS the whole discussion.

Well, the discussion of what counts as magic certainly remains in the mix. In any case, in principle I agree with you. As I said above look to the Level Up fighter for an example of what I think you're talking about.

 

[DND_Reborn]

FWIW, my first post in this thread was about 6 hours ago. Over 300 posts for a thread in six hours seems pretty impressive to me.

 

[Maxperson]

I think this was in response to someone saying you could triple the long jump distances for fighters and no one would notice

Okay, thanks. I skipped some pages in the middle due to the speed of the thread.