D&D General Chris just said why I hate wizard/fighter dynamic

[TwoSix]

For some, is it that D&D is it's own genre now, goes to 20th level, and the fighters are left behind and need something?

For others is it that fighters were at the heart of the inspirational literature, and that D&D has lost its way at the high levels?

I think all of those things are true.

 

[Minigiant]

I'd prefer a system where you got back X number of spell slots back after a rest based on your level. Perhaps limit the max spell level you can get back after a short rest. That way it could be easily tweaked by the group for better balance. Maybe for one group they get back 5 spell slots (5 1st level spells or 1 5th level spell) after a short rest while another gets back 10 or whatever. Obviously it would need to be based on class and level somehow.

The problem is the total amount of slots and prepared spells a prepared caster has when fully stocked is very high. And the number of types of challenges can exceed that those numbers without locking no casters out of problem solving.

Just experience differ then. IME those issues are still issue up to level 20, with Wish being the one exceptional "catch-all" spell.

I guess.

I see these issues crop up early. You get 12+ spells PLUS cantrips prepared very early. Then you get scrolls and wands

 

[Mort]

But again, fundamentally that's an issue of genre.

Sort of. It's an issue of perception of the genre.

I find it non sensical in the genre of D&D to view mid-high (or even low really) PCs, human or otherwise, as mundane and ordinary.

 

[TwoSix]

Sot of. It's an issue of perception of the genre.

I find it non sensical in the genre of D&D to view mid-high (or even low really) PCs, human or otherwise, as mundane and ordinary.

Well, I don't disagree, but I think there's also the contingent of players that think even high level PCs outgrowing the boundaries of "possible" are what causes the problem.

 

[Cadence]

Sot of. It's an issue of perception of the genre.

I find it non sensical in the genre of D&D to view mid-high (or even low really) PCs, human or otherwise, as mundane and ordinary.

How about "action hero movie" level of mundane?

 

[DND_Reborn]

I find it non sensical in the genre of D&D to view mid-high (or even low really) PCs, human or otherwise, as mundane and ordinary.

That is fine for your perception, but for many of us the opposite is quite true. If I want to play a superhero game, I would, and I wouldn't play D&D to be a superhero.

 

[Micah Sweet]

To put it another way. It's like being an atheist in the Forgotten Realms. It's a near nonsensical belief.

To paraphrase Terri Pratchett (probably badly): It's hard to not believe in the gods when the gods throw rocks.

I get what you're saying, but people are simply not surrounded by supernatural and magical phenomena (from which they can develop superhuman abilities) as a matter of course in every D&D world. Sometimes that stuff is far off at the edge of the wild. Sometimes you have no reason to believe in magic at all until it slaps you in the face. It all depends on the setting, and the game has to cover them all.

 

[DND_Reborn]

How about "action hero movie" level of mundane?

For me this is solid tier 3...

 

[Scribe]

D&D adventurers should not be mundane people. Period, full stop. Black Widow and Hawkeye are about where a 5th level martial should be. Calling them high level is a joke. Thor is about where a fighter should be at 11th level.

1. Some Adventurers SHOULD be mundane people.
2. No way should a Fighter be 'Thor' at 11. Not even 20, unless Mjolnir is a Magic Weapon that grants massive super human Str, Damage Reduction, Flight, Cast Lightning at will...and more besides.

Just no.

 

[Scribe]

On a serious note, I don't see why a wizard or sorcerer couldn't learn martial arts. It's not like you have to be the monk class to learn it.

Learn? NP.

Be skilled in to the point of 'professional' or expert level proficiency to be combat effective? That takes time and dedication that SHOULD be excluded because they are using their 'time and dedication' to be casters.