D&D General Chris just said why I hate wizard/fighter dynamic

[Maxperson]

Fine, not a "Sorcerer" either. More like some sort of mystical monk.

Actually, if you look at the recent Spiderman movie, magic seems to run in bloodlines. Sorcerer is the right term for them. And again, some martial arts skill doesn't make them a monk. They weren't even fighting at Jackie Chan levels, and I wouldn't peg him as a monk, either.

 

[Maxperson]

Learn? NP.

Be skilled in to the point of 'professional' or expert level proficiency to be combat effective? That takes time and dedication that SHOULD be excluded because they are using their 'time and dedication' to be casters.

Why? We see in the movie that he has all day, every day to study and practice. Over the period of months that he was there, he could very easily become an black belt martial artist in the time it took him to learn(and he was a prodigy) how to use his magic.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Actually, if you look at the recent Spiderman movie, magic seems to run in bloodlines. Sorcerer is the right term for them. And again, some martial arts skill doesn't make them a monk. They weren't even fighting at Jackie Chan levels, and I wouldn't peg him as a monk, either.

LOL a topic for a different thread. I am not knowledgeable enough about comics, or even pay enough attention to most of the movies, to discuss it in depth.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Over the period of months that he was there, he could very easily become an expert martial artist in the time

Well, skilled maybe, but not an expert... I don't care how much of a prodigy he was LOL!.

 

[Scribe]

Why? We see in the movie that he has all day, every day to study and practice. Over the period of months that he was there, he could very easily become an expert martial artist in the time it took him to learn(and he was a prodigy) how to use his magic.

1. Plot armour.
2. It does not take 'months' to become an expert martial artist. It takes years.
3. It does not take 'months' to become physically fit enough to then APPLY that expert martial arts. That also takes years.
4. To do that on top of study to becoming a master sorcerer? See 1.

I have trained (Pre-Covid, restrictions and lockdowns can go burn!) Muay Thai for over 8 years. Nobody becomes an expert in months, nobody.

 

[Mort]

That is fine for your perception, but for many of us the opposite is quite true. If I wasn't to play a superhero game, I would, and I wouldn't play D&D to be a superhero.

Superhero has too wide a range to be of meaningful use in the discussion, no? Thor is a superhero, but so is black widow.

The question is about making fighters have some options outside of combat (lie level up already does) and whether that's a good thing going forward for D&D.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Because why?

Rogues (and Bards as the Jack of All Trades) are skill monkeys. Thats part of what they are.

Why should the fighter have anything special in these areas? It doesnt speak to Fighter identity or core concept in any way at all.

Because being "ok" at fighting isn't exactly a great niche, when EVERYONE fights. Fighters dont even get their third attack until the game reaches a point few people play.

 

[Yaarel]

We're kind of stuck on 4 tiers, what if it was three?

Levels 1-7: mundane (completely possible IRL)
Levels 8-14: heroic (feasible IRL, if not actually possible)
Levels 15+: super heroic (barely feasible, not possible IRL at all)

I kinda do that.

Proficiency bonus +1/+2: "Zero"/Apprentice ≈ normal
Proficiency bonus +3/+4: Adventurer/Master ≈ action hero
Proficiency bonus +5/+6: Great/Legend ≈ superhero
Proficiency bonus +7: Epic ≈ world-creating

 

[DND_Reborn]

The question is about making fighters have some options outside of combat (lie level up already does) and whether that's a good thing going forward for D&D.

To a degree, certainly it is good. I think fighters (for example) should be able to have expertise in Athletics. I can't tell you how much it annoys me that a STR 10 Rogue can out-wrestle a STR 20 Fighter at level 20...

I don't think there are many who would argue against improving martials in such a sense, as long as you don't go overboard and take away the niche of skill monkey from Bard/Rogue...

 

[Scribe]

Because being "ok" at fighting isn't exactly a great niche, when EVERYONE fights. Fighters dont even get their third attack until the game reaches a point few people play.

Like I said, Fighters shouldnt be OK. They should be the pinnacle, and everyone else, should get knocked down a peg or 2, or Fighters should be buffed considerablly.

The flaw is everyone else being great at Combat.