D&D General Chris just said why I hate wizard/fighter dynamic

[Minigiant]

Again these discussions are backward.
If the fighter is supposed to fight, look at who he's fighting.
A CR 11 Horned devil has

1. A flight speed
2. A speed higher than a mortal character
3. 3 immunities
4. 1 normal resistances
5. 3 special resistances
6. a 150ft ranged attack with no ammo
7. a poisonous melee attack
8. another strong melee attack
9. darkvision
10. immunity to magical darkness
11. telepathy
12. magical resistance
13. STR and CON over 20
14. all other scores over 11
15. proficiency in 4 saves

"I want fighter to be a normal grounded humaniod"
"How can a normal grounded humanoid bound to the edges of reality fight that?"
"Magic items"
"Are 4-5 reality breaking magic items guaranteed?"
"No"
"How can a normal grounded humanoid bound to the edges of reality fight that?"
"He takes advantage of the devil's infernal hubris"
"Oh. The DM runs the devil like an idiot. He tries to duke it out with the greatsword specced fighter instead of out shooting them at range."

 

[Oofta]

Can high level D&D not be a super hero game?

People are complaining that high level fighters are not powerful enough ... so apparently.

 

[Scribe]

"I want fighter to be a normal grounded humanized"
"How can a normal grounded humanoid bound to the edges of reality fight that?"
"Magic items"
"Are 4-5 reality breaking magic items guaranteed?"
"No"
"How can a normal grounded humanoid bound to the edges of reality fight that?"

I found the problem.

The push against Magic Items is so weird to me...

 

[Cadence]

"Are 4-5 reality breaking magic items guaranteed?"
"No"

Why is a hero of the realm going off to save reality from devils and yet neither they nor anyone in the realm can scrounge up some magic items to help? Sounds like the devils picked their target well... and the players picked their supreme overlord poorly.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Thor can control lightning, fly, and has super strength and endurance. He is most clearly NOT mundane, but if your suggestion to fixing fighters is to allow them to throw lightning bolt, then the answer is just to give everyone magic and be done.

Mjolnir shoots lightning and can fly. Selecting the magic item is part of the class (tradeable for another ability). Superhuman (or dwarf) stats should absolutely be part of the level 7+ non full caster packet. None of those are spells.

No PC should be mundane. But since some people demand to be a gimp with a stick, we can leave the sorry ass fighter where it is and make a new class actually worthy of going on adventures with the demigods who are D&D casters.

 

[Maxperson]

The man listens to no one.

Missed opportunities! You had the perfect set up to offer him My Little Pony which grants him a negative modifier for the entire next edition!

 

[Maxperson]

Be bit by an... enchanted... spider?

Have a radioactive sludge grant him blindsight?

 

[Mort]

I found the problem.

The push against Magic Items is so weird to me...

Question for you then:

Why should the fighter need magic items to be effective while for the wizard, they're just gravy?

I much prefer to have the need for magic items be lessened so I can concentrate on interesting magic items that do cool/interesting stuff rather than items that just "prop up" the fighter. I hate the "need" for plussed items, weapons or armor - magic items should be fun and interesting not a necessary crutch.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

If you want to play a superhero game there are options out there for it. I don't want to play a superhero game.

You already are, you just want to play the benchwarmer. Some of the rest of us want a mythic warrior. I don't know how us having an option prevents you from playing your crappy fighter. A new class won't force you to play it, I promise.

Why is it we never see wizard players whining that they're too powerful and asking for a hedge mystic half caster with d4 HP, no proficiencies and only able to cast certain spells when the moon is in phase. Is it because they know that D&D is a power fantasy RPG?

 

[Maxperson]

I found the problem.

The push against Magic Items is so weird to me...

I don't see a push against magic items. They just shouldn't be class dependent, unless the class itself is based around making and using them.