D&D General Chris just said why I hate wizard/fighter dynamic

[DND_Reborn]

The issue is that after level 8 or so, everything is flying, teleporting, invisble, castig spells, or worse.

I can only speak for my game, but level 8 PCs are generally facing CR 8 and often much lower (like CR 5-6) monsters.

That being said, three of my favorite monsters are CR 11, and none of them can fly, turn invisible, or cast spells, etc.

So if the fighter needs the magical items to do cool things but the caster doesn't - that's an imbalance.

Not really. Take the magic away from the fighter and the caster and see who's the stronger...

 

[Micah Sweet]

depends on the fighters builds and the environment. Like you later say.

The issue is that after level 8 or so, everything is flying, teleporting, invisble, castig spells, or worse.

It's not a "CR11 monster" It's a very fast, flying devil with unlimited range attacks that takes 5turns to cover.


Because D&D DMs don't want to be forced to hand out specific items.

It's not clear. A horned devil can dodge a fighter easily unless he or she is decked out with a themed suite of magical gear.

See, this why I thought there are multiple conversations happening here. Some people think fighters need super powers to keep up, some people like items, some don't, others think fighters are fine in combat now and need help in other pillars. Its all over the place.

 

[Scribe]

They let everyone do cool things not just the fighter.

So if the fighter needs the magical items to do cool things but the caster doesn't - that's an imbalance.

No, its a difference of design, theme, and niche. It doesnt have to be imbalanced at all.

 

[Shades of Eternity]

Can Jackie Chan or John McCain fight a Dragon? Or a T-Rex?

If you have chosen any other character, I'd let it slide.

But can Jackie Chan fight a Dragon?

He's not only fought but he's also beaten a dragon several times.

He's fought elder demons and won.

He's fought elder wizards and won.

Yes, he has a great team, but Jackie Chan is the unassuming "I don't want no trouble" while fighting a Lovecraftian horror while hanging onto a baby in one hand and juggling it with a priceless ming vase, all while saying "bad day" and being berated by Uncle and still wins.

Who the hell wouldn't want to play famed archaeologist Jackie Chan who is a competitive character at 20th level?

Dungeons and Dragons is less well off by not being able to Play Jackie Chan (or Tohru, Jade...Uncle is already playable).

There done.

I'll let you get back to your regularly scheduled Linear fighters, Quadratic Wizards merry-go-round.

 

[Micah Sweet]

They let everyone do cool things not just the fighter.

So if the fighter needs the magical items to do cool things but the caster doesn't - that's an imbalance.

Unless the items are built into the class. And i think it should be noted that the imbalance you're seeing is spotlight related, not about the rules (since you said they're fine for combat as is).

 

[Cadence]

No worries. You get to be Thor at 11th level and you get an infinity gauntlet by 16th.

No guaranteed magic items. You get to be an infinity gauntlet at 20th level.

 

[Mort]

And now we are getting somewhere...

Interesting.

To me, it's just semantics (whether the ability comes from external or internal sources) but I can see how it may "the whole game" to some others.

 

[MichaelSomething]

I don't think the people who play the Dungeon Crawl Classics TTRPG have to worry about overpowered casters! I don't think we can get everyone to use that system though...

You already are, you just want to play the benchwarmer. Some of the rest of us want a mythic warrior. I don't know how us having an option prevents you from playing your crappy fighter. A new class won't force you to play it, I promise.

Why is it we never see wizard players whining that they're too powerful and asking for a hedge mystic half caster with d4 HP, no proficiencies and only able to cast certain spells when the moon is in phase. Is it because they know that D&D is a power fantasy RPG?

 

[Mort]

Unless the items are built into the class. And i think it should be noted that the imbalance you're seeing is spotlight related, not about the rules (since you said they're fine for combat as is).

That would be an interesting option - it, at the very least, recognizes and attempts to fix the issue.

 

[Maxperson]

depends on the fighters builds and the environment. Like you later say.

The issue is that after level 8 or so, everything is flying, teleporting, invisble, castig spells, or worse.

It's not a "CR11 monster" It's a very fast, flying devil with unlimited range attacks that takes 5turns to cover.


Because D&D DMs don't want to be forced to hand out specific items.

It's not clear. A horned devil can dodge a fighter easily unless he or she is decked out with a themed suite of magical gear.

And a dragon can fly a mile high and dodge them all.

Maybe don't fight enemies where they are strongest if you can help it. Plus, it's not like Horned Devils wander the countryside where there's going to be room to fly 150 feet up. Encountered on the prime, which is where 11th level adventurers will most probably still be adventuring, Horned Devils will be in dungeons, castles, towers, etc. where there isn't that much room to fly and maneuver.