Christian Persecution vs Persecuted Christians

[Bedrockgames]

I agree. My issue was with declaring Obama's murder of an American via drone justified because it was "legal". However, as was noted, it wasn't even done "legally". It was done via a memo, without any kind of court order.

I don't know. I wish all these people complaining about Obama overstepping presidential authority were saying something back when Bush suspended habeas corpus and law enforcement was given sweeping surveillance capabilities. I'm uncomfortable with some of the tactics we are using, but a lot of that stuff is really just a continuation of the policies that were begun under bush and had Obama reversed course, people would be screaming at him for that (and they have in cases where he wanted to do things like shut down Gitmo). If people really want to roll back all the excesses that came after 9/11 we need both sides to come together, agree that we shouldn't sacrifice so much liberty for increased security and then put together legislation to undo some of the damage we've done. But I think the things that have occurred in the last fifteen years are by and large what the population wanted. If people don't want that stuff, they need to elect reps who care more about liberty and are not just invoking it because its politically helpful to them.

 

[Maxperson]

Of course it isn't, but it's Obama, so it is to Max and people with his political leanings. People get upset that the military is using drones to take out U.S. citizens who are fighting against the U.S. and killing U.S. citizens (military personnel), yet they have no problem with police killing far more U.S. citizens. In the end there is no real difference between a gun, a rifle, or a drone fired missile. The end result is that someone dies.

First, please don't put words in my mouth. What ISIS does is worse. What Obama did is still terrible. Second, just as there is a big difference between ISSIS and Obama, there is a huge difference between the vast majority of police shootings and the intentional murder of a U.S. citizen by Obama. You are comparing apples and oranges.

 

[Maxperson]

I don't know. I wish all these people complaining about Obama overstepping presidential authority were saying something back when Bush suspended habeas corpus and law enforcement was given sweeping surveillance capabilities. I'm uncomfortable with some of the tactics we are using, but a lot of that stuff is really just a continuation of the policies that were begun under bush and had Obama reversed course, people would be screaming at him for that (and they have in cases where he wanted to do things like shut down Gitmo). If people really want to roll back all the excesses that came after 9/11 we need both sides to come together, agree that we shouldn't sacrifice so much liberty for increased security and then put together legislation to undo some of the damage we've done. But I think the things that have occurred in the last fifteen years are by and large what the population wanted. If people don't want that stuff, they need to elect reps who care more about liberty and are not just invoking it because its politically helpful to them.

I was (and am) very vocal against what Bush did, and what Obama continued after he took over from Bush. I am entirely consistent

 

[Morrus]

No one would ever take EN World serious after that.

It's a TRPG website. Nobody should take it seriously.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I was (and am) very vocal against what Bush did, and what Obama continued after he took over from Bush. I am entirely consistent

You might be (I don't know you, so I can't say) but most people are not. Like I said, I'm uncomfortable with drone striking citizens, but I don't think it makes the guy a villain. I think it is one of those issues that is relatively complex and I believe he would have got more flak had he not done so. Yes, in an ideal world we wouldn't be using drones on our own citizens, but these are citizens accused of fighting against us and collaborating with terrorists. I'd say it is a tough call. Personally I'd prefer to err on the side of not assassinating citizens. I also question how much it really effects things. Is taking out the handful of Americans who've collaborated with terrorist groups really putting a dent in terrorism? It seems like a questionable precedent to set for unclear gain. But it isn't like Obama is targeting them because he just likes killing americans.

 

[Morrus]

First, please don't put words in my mouth.

OK, this is becoming an issue. Multiple post reports; you've done it to me twice, and I've seen you do it to dozens of people when they did no such thing. I need you to reconsider the "words in my mouth" accusation as your automatic go-to debating tactic. It's irritating a lot of people. Consider this a warning.

 

[Maxperson]

OK, this is becoming an issue. Multiple post reports; you've done it to me twice, and I've seen you do it to dozens of people when they did no such thing. I need you to reconsider the "words in my mouth" accusation as your automatic go-to debating tactic. It's irritating a lot of people. Consider this a warning.

I'm confused. When I've done it, I backed off. Why am I getting a warning for having it done to me? I also notice you said nothing to him for doing it.

 

[Kramodlog]

It's a fiction. The only statehood is one which is recognised.

So what it needs is people who recognize it as such. Like some of its population.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

What ISIS does is worse. What Obama did is still terrible.

Why is it so terrible? You don't seem to have a problem with him killing other Jihadist. Why does one of them being a U.S. citizen suddenly make it a terrible thing if killing others isn't?

Second, just as there is a big difference between ISSIS and Obama, there is a huge difference between the vast majority of police shootings and the intentional murder of a U.S. citizen by Obama. You are comparing apples and oranges.

Well, you do have a point. Police shootings don't often involve people who have declared holy war on the U.S.

 

[Umbran]

I'm confused. When I've done it, I backed off. Why am I getting a warning for having it done to me? I also notice you said nothing to him for doing it.

Stepping out of being a participant, to note The Rules: If you have a question about moderation, take it up in Private Message or e-mail, please.