Christians and DnD

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What do I think? I think he's dead wrong.

Random samping of points follows. (Note, I am granting him the notion that Christianity is right and Wicca, Islam, Shintoism, etc. are 'wrong' because otherwise, the quick answer is "So what if RPGs are detrimental to Christianity." Oh, and I'm a Christian myself, so I'm more interested in looking at this from a Christian point of view.)

1) He notes that Wiccan books, groups, etc. have become more popular (or even only come into existance) since D&D hit the stores. Nowhere does he show causality. This is a classic post hoc ergo propter hoc ('after this, therefore from this') fallacy.

I got married after Bill Clinton was elected to office. Were his sexual escapades responsible for my wedded bliss?

The success of things like Harry Potter falls into the same category. I'd be looking more for common causality than a 'one causes the other' situation.

2) The language of Christians apologizing was apparently less than perfect. So what? I've yet to see a foul word in any D&D book (meaning TSR or WotC). I've also heard pastor's wives cuss/curse.

Besides, taking the Lord's name in vain is the only act prohibited by God's Law. Personally, I'm quite offended when I hear someone do that, curse someone ('damn'), etc.; but scatological (and similar) references register as simply a bit lowbrow and crude.

All that is to say that I'm not sure what he means by foul language. For all I know, someone called him a 'pompous ass', and he's decided that is a damnable offense.

3) While I'm quite impressed that he appears to have read a fair amount of the rules, he doesn't appear to always understand them, or to care. Take, for instance, his impeachment of Alignment.

His first claim is "that quite often, players will pick an alignment that is more evil or chaotic". Upon what does he base this claim? My experience has shown me that for more groups prohibit Evil characters than encourage them. That isn't saying my experience is exhaustive, but it is a more sound basis than anything he presents.

3a) Why the dissing for Chaotic? This is something that annoys me, not just from him, but from within the RP community, too. I fail to see how Chaos, as listed in the books, is any less Good than Law. Yet, he presents this idea without any rationale or explanation.

Well, so long as he views the American Founding Fathers with contempt for their Chaotic and depraved ways, I suppose that he is at least consistant.

4) He asserts, "the Necronomicon and the Cthulhu mythos are quite real." This is wholly untrue, but I'm willing to grant that he was misinformed rather than intentionally misleading. The Cthulhu myths were found only in the fictional writings of HP Lovecraft and the Necronomicon is part of those myths. Sure, you can go into Waldenbooks and buy a copy of the Necronomicon (I've got one on my shelf at home), but it post-dates Lovecraft and is obviously a knock-off.

5) He says, "They make this mistake because they equate Roman Catholicism and its robed clerics for Christians," which is downright insulting. For someone who likes waving his Bible around and making reference to it (not that there's anything wrong with that), he might want to have an understanding of which group stapled together the first copy.

I should note that I've got some pretty big disagreements with Catholicism, but to call them non-Christian without any rationale (do I see a pattern?), is a pretty big stretch for this guy to make.

6) He discusses the absence of Christ as a power in the default D&D game. Personally, I see this as a strength of the game. As DM, I have to determine the motivations and actions of the "powers that be". If that power happens to be Christ, it becomes a catch 22 -- I can't imagine NPCing Jesus as a holy and respectful thing.

If you're a Christian, it is a simple thing to say "for some reason, unfathomable to me or anyone else, this particular universe was set up a bit differently and God does not make His presence known directly. He exists and is superior to anything you'll be interacting with, though." I should know. That's been the statement in my game for two decades.

7) He quotes a passage from the "Freeman article" that stakes a complete lack of evidence in any known report that gaming and suicide are related. Then he asks for evidence of this claim. That is a totally non-sensical retort. It is akin to:
-"My car will go 150 miles per hour."
-"That sounds unlikely, can you show me that?"
-"Nope. You have to prove that it doesn't."

7a) He does similar things throughout the discussion of Dallas Egbert.

7b) His response to the impeachment of Dr. Thomas Radecki (an 'authority' cited by RPG foes) having his liscence suspended was to say, that it may be true, but that does not mean we shouldn't listen to his professional opinion. The author may want to understand that having a license suspended pretty much does mean that someone has no professional credibility.

8) In response to, "Of course, one might be forgiven for suspecting an investigation paid for by the FRPG industry itself. That would be like asking the fox to guard the henhouse," one could ask for an alternate study. One could also ask if the accused should be allowed to speak at their own trial.

Or, we could just sum up the whole thing by saying, "Of course, one might be forgiven for suspecting an article by a fringe group religious zealots itself. That would be like asking the fox to guard the henhouse."
 

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I consider myself a devout christian. The funny thing is Mr. Chick and his cohorts would be more upset at my chosen form of Christianity (mormon) then the fact that I'm a gamer. Mr. Chick is well intentioned, but you know what they say about Hell and good intentions.
 

TracerBullet42 said:
And besides, you don't win friends with salad.

True that, brother. True that. The only TWO things better then "Meat and Potatoes" (What's 'taters, precious?) is "meat and meat" or "meat, potatoes and corn".


In regards to topic. I always find it iritating that D&D (they can't even really distinguish that there are other RPGs for the most part, notice that) gets a bad wrap when there's millions of screaming idiots devoted far more to Football (both the U.S. version and the version the rest of the world cares about), Basketball, Baseball, WOmen Synchronized Swimming and Hockey (and Dodgeball!) then even thier own family, friends and any religion they might choose to go for.

They paint themselves, lose thier lives to gambling on them, quote statistics and players better then they can the 10 Commandments & the names of the Apostles. They ditch work, lie and cheat to get to games. In some cases they destroy stadiums, kill people and riot in the streets. Look at that idiot who was basically marked for death in Chicago because he reached out and touched the ball at that Cubs game.
 
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Kael said:
Mr. Chick is well intentioned, but you know what they say about Hell and good intentions.

Oo! Oo! I got this one, Mr. Carter! ;)

That the path to Hell is paved with them? :D

Did I win a Bozo Button...or a chance to drink from the firehouse? I am hoping for the firehouse! :eek:


Sorry, feeling a bit on the silly side today.
 


I am a Christian and it saddens me to see someone who claims to be a fellow Christian take such a narrow-minded, ignorant view of the world. In fact, it's people like this that are directly responsible for driving people away from the faith. In attacking D&D, Rock'n'Roll or whichever current sin-of-the-week they happen to be upset with, they expose their own ignorance, hurting not only their own image, but their faiths image as well. Anyone thinking of joining Christianity or increasing their attendance at church is far more likely to do just the opposite after hearing such nonsense.
 

Thanee said:
I'll leave the question about whether he is real or not to someone else, but that's surely another Tyr, than the one I was talking about. ;)

Bye
Thanee

well.. they arent EXACTLY the same god.. but they do appear to share a similar portfolio..

that said it sticks in my mind that FR contains maybe half a dozen real world Finnish deities*, plus at least one Roman** (and of course the Mulhorandi pantheon is the Egyptian one)

*Mielikki i'm sure of
**Silvanus
 

Mercule said:
For all I know, someone called him a 'pompous ass', and he's decided that is a damnable offense.
I don't know if anyone called him that, but I do know that I don't covet his neighbors.

Very insightful post, Mercule.

Daniel
 

Kalendraf said:
I am a Christian and it saddens me to see someone who claims to be a fellow Christian take such a narrow-minded, ignorant view of the world. In fact, it's people like this that are directly responsible for driving people away from the faith. In attacking D&D, Rock'n'Roll or whichever current sin-of-the-week they happen to be upset with, they expose their own ignorance, hurting not only their own image, but their faiths image as well. Anyone thinking of joining Christianity or increasing their attendance at church is far more likely to do just the opposite after hearing such nonsense.
Unfortunately, people are very intolerant.

People historically don't want to join together with other people who share a single belief (like in Christ for example), they want everyone to believe in all the same things they do and do things in the same way.

Edit: I removed or changed most of my post to remove generalizations about Christians. Although I believe that any generalized group is made up with individuals that are all very different from each other.
 
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FCWesel said:
In regards to topic. I always find it iritating that D&D (they can't even really distinguish that there are other RPGs for the most part, notice that) gets a bad wrap when there's millions of screaming idiots devoted far more to Football (both the U.S. version and the version the rest of the world cares about), Basketball, Baseball, WOmen Synchronized Swimming and Hockey (and Dodgeball!) then even thier own family, friends and any religion they might choose to go for.

They paint themselves, lose thier lives to gambling on them, quote statistics and players better then they can the 10 Commandments & the names of the Apostles. They ditch work, lie and cheat to get to games. In some cases they destroy stadiums, kill people and riot in the streets. Look at that idiot who was basically marked for death in Chicago because he reached out and touched the ball at that Cubs game.

Please clarify. It seems you are applying a negative stereotype to sports fans. I'm willing to bet you didn't mean it that way, but your post seems to paint sport fans as idiots who neglect family, religion, and their jobs, all in the name of fandom.

However, the point is well taken that being a fanatic about <you name it>, can impact other aspects of your life in a negative manner.
 

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