City Survivor - Final Vote! (Read the Question before voting!!!!)

Choose your FAVORITE of the Two Cities

  • Freeport

    Votes: 89 34.2%
  • Sigil

    Votes: 171 65.8%

  • Poll closed .
Jürgen Hubert said:
It's not a snub.

It's just that the people who like Greyhawk the most are those who were around when it was first in print. And the number of these gamers is unlikely to grow. To attract new, younger gamers you have to write settings that they will like. Tastes change over time, after all.

That must be why Living Greyhawk is so popular. Wait, that would be an argument against your position...sorry. I saw plenty of new gamers (even a ten-year-old) playing LG and enjoying the setting immensely. Numerous volunteers toil to keep GH alive for new players and from the looks of the RPGA forums on the WoTC site, it seems like LG is the most popular of the four D&D campaigns they run. I think new Greyhawk material would be a huge inflow for WoTC. Us "old gamers" are the ones with the spending power and we're not buying FR and Eberron stuff (well, I did buy the main FR and Eberron books and I'm sure other GH fans are buying FR and Eberron stuff in the abscence of any GH support).
 

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Hmm, you know, if there were a Living Planescape community (like Living Greyhawk and Living Force-now defunct?), I think I'd be there in a heartbeat.

Why is it that there isn't a Living Planescape campaign?
 

IcyCool said:
Hmm, you know, if there were a Living Planescape community (like Living Greyhawk and Living Force-now defunct?), I think I'd be there in a heartbeat.

Why is it that there isn't a Living Planescape campaign?

Either:

1. WoTC does not allow the RPGA to support defunct camapign worlds.

or

2. There is not enough support to start such a campaign.
 

Vyvyan Basterd said:
... Us "old gamers" are the ones with the spending power and we're not buying FR and Eberron stuff ....
I don't think we "old gamers" are the only ones with spending power however, and I've a sneaking suspicion that Eberron and FR books seem to sell well enough - as WOTC keep on making 'em.

I'm guessing they're selling pretty well in fact.

Edit: For the record I personally buy most FR releases and most core D&D releases and would be interested in picking up Greyhawk material as well if it were available. Eberron wise however I just own the CS which I picked up when one of our group ran a campaign set in Sharn.
 

crazy_cat said:
I don't think we "old gamers" are the only ones with spending power however, and I've a sneaking suspicion that Eberron and FR books seem to sell well enough - as WOTC keep on making 'em.

I'm guessing they're selling pretty well in fact.

As I said in my post I'm sure plenty of us are buying, and I know other are as well, but I still think there would be a large market for Greyhawk material as witness by the popularity of Living Greyhawk over the other campaigns. At least a campaign book for 3.5 with regional feats, the human subraces of Greyhawk, etc.
 

Vyvyan Basterd said:
As I said in my post I'm sure plenty of us are buying, and I know other are as well, but I still think there would be a large market for Greyhawk material as witness by the popularity of Living Greyhawk over the other campaigns. At least a campaign book for 3.5 with regional feats, the human subraces of Greyhawk, etc.
I don't think you actually have any idea what "plenty" means in that case, which is hurting your argument. Your position is based on anecdotal evidence being taken out of context and out of proportion to it's actual usefulness in determining Greyhawk's popularity and trying to build on that already shaky foundation the theory that WotC is keeping Greyhawk down against all reasonable business sense.

I just don't find that very likely.
 

J-Dawg said:
I don't think you actually have any idea what "plenty" means in that case, which is hurting your argument. Your position is based on anecdotal evidence being taken out of context and out of proportion to it's actual usefulness in determining Greyhawk's popularity and trying to build on that already shaky foundation the theory that WotC is keeping Greyhawk down against all reasonable business sense.

I just don't find that very likely.

But the problem is that WoTC, while they know the selling power of FR and Eberron, are ignoring the fact that a large population of gamers play Living Greyahwk and are still fans of a supposedly old, outdated campaign setting. Obviously I can't prove that GH would sell, but neither can you prove that WoTC has actually done any market research related to GH. You assume they would, but people in the business world make bad decisions every day based on personal preferences. So we are left with our opinions. Mine is that there is a large active fan base for GH in addition to FR and Eberron. IMO, WoTC is losing out by not at least testing the waters with a GH Campaign book for 3.5. I'm arguing against a whole group of people on this thread that are not "in the know" so saying that I have no idea what "plenty" means is not a very strong defense of your argument as you don't have inside knowledge either. If you did, you probably would not be a liberty to speak about it on a public forum.
 

I think one of the problems with WotC releasing a Greyhawk campaign book is that it'd possibly be more fluff than crunch. With FR, there's a bit more variety & whatnot available in the campaign, as well as unique setting elements that need to be included in the campaign.

However, with Greyhawk, there's not really any of that. It's intended to be the default setting for the core books (and Dungeon modules now, IIRC), so I don't think it'd work introducing new setting-specific systems into the game (like Spellfire for FR, Dragonmarks for Eberron, etc.).

For all we know, the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer released during the 3.0 days may have been the "testing the waters" product, and sales may not have indicated a good result. Granted, IMHO, the Gazetteer wasn't really a page-turner--it too was a lot of fluff with little crunch, but it may have feasibly sealed Greyhawk's revamp fate. Add to that the buggy nightmare that was the Temple of Elemental Evil CRPG, & Greyhawk's got a bad appeal for the potential market of new players.

Granted, I think there may be the slim chance that a Greyhawk game could work well, but I'd think it'd need a few things: a nice world map (perhaps copies of the 4-piece Greyhawk map included in Dungeon, or a 1-piece version of that map); a good map of the Free City of Greyhawk (since it's what the setting's name is derived from); details on the folk of Greyhawk (and possibly regional feats/benefits, from Dragon magazine); Greyhawk-specific crunch for PCs (reprinting PrCs like the Radiant Servant of Pelor, Suel Arcanomach, Shining Blade of Heironymous, Temple Raider of Olidammara, etc.); notable monsters (Suel Lich, Xvart, Greyhawk Dragon, etc.); & notable NPCs (a reprint of Warduke, Mordenkainen & the Circle of Eight, Iuz, etc.).

Now, the release of Expedition to Castle Greyhawk shows some hope for the setting. However, we'll just have to wait & see how things go.
 

IcyCool said:
Hmm, you know, if there were a Living Planescape community (like Living Greyhawk and Living Force-now defunct?), I think I'd be there in a heartbeat.

Why is it that there isn't a Living Planescape campaign?

I suspecte b/c as far as WOTC is concerned they don't want to dilute their efforts for somethign that is a bit of a niche market. They leave it to the fansites to take over for that duty. As for why the fansites haven't... well - we haven't had any volunteers with a good plan on how to do it. :)
 

On a different note has anyone else noticed the incongruity of pirate lovers teasing the Cant?

"Avast ye scum ridden weevil shaggers. Captain Black Beard is gonna keel haul you and grow barnacles on ye starboard knacker".


while I'm at it here's a few translations taken from www.talklikeapirateday.com

"Yarr." - I agree.

"Yarr!" - I see your point, and agree wholeheartedly.

"Yarr-ha-harr!" - You're right!

"Yarr?" - Excuse me, what did you say?

"Yarrgh" - I respectfully acknowledge that you are right and I am wrong
 

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