Cityscape ToC

[JustKim]

Organic refuse is going to turn into soil whether or not there are bricks on the ground.

No it is not. At least not for a very long time. Billions of organisms, from bacteria to worms, are required to convert organic material to soil. Most of them are not present on a brick road, and the most you're likely to see is simple decay. If you leave a banana peel on a road, after a week it'll be a rotten banana peel. After a month it'll be a withered banana peel. After a year it will still be a withered banana peel. At this point it also contains trace toxic chemicals that've washed across the road in rainwater, and would not make good soil anyway.

If you've ever tried to make a compost pile in your yard, you've probably noticed that piles of leaves and lawn clippings do not decay quickly unless you introduce things that contain bacteria- fertilizer, bits of food, or the bodies of people who annoyed you on message boards. In a sterile environment, soil does not occur.

I think what you're calling a "postmodern attitude," I would simply call a more realistic worldview.

What I am talking about is science. It does not get any more realistic.

 

[Felon]

If you've ever tried to make a compost pile in your yard, you've probably noticed that piles of leaves and lawn clippings do not decay quickly unless you introduce things that contain bacteria- fertilizer, bits of food, or the bodies of people who annoyed you on message boards.

ROFL

 

[DMH]

Do cities have an ecology- yes. If there is anything alive, there has to be an ecosystem by definition and there are plenty of organisms within a city.

Is a city ecosystem different from the one it displaced- of course. It is like when the Black Sea was flooded with saltwater (initally being a freshwater lake) and the guilds and communities of organisms changed.

Is it a better ecosystem- for some organisms, yes. But those, such as American cockroaches, are much less diverse than those that were replaced. So, in the grand scheme, they are negative influence upon the global ecology.

Do I think there should be druids tending to fleas, pigeons, urban monsters and roaches? Eh. I can see the arguement from both directions. An urban druid could exist to be something like an exterminator and manipulate the populations within the city to provide benefits to both the people and the organisms. It depends on what you consider a druid- nature worshipper or nature bender. The former have little place within a city and the latter have tons of urban potential.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Hey, Chrissie Hynde! Are you reading this? Don't feel bad about Ohio. A giant parking lot is every bit as much of an ecosystem as the woods that were clear-cut to build it.

Pretty sure that's a Joanie Mitchell song that Hynde (and a million others) have covered.

 

[Umbran]

The usage of the word "postmodern" is intentional because this discussion has all the earmarks of postmodern discourse by self-avowed intellectuals.

You know, folks here really should stick to dealing with the argument, rather than trying to characterize the speakers or their arguments broadly. If you don't respect them or the discussion points enough to deal with them as individuals, you probably shouldn't be responding at all.

 

[Nyeshet]

If you've ever tried to make a compost pile in your yard, you've probably noticed that piles of leaves and lawn clippings do not decay quickly unless you introduce things that contain bacteria- fertilizer, bits of food, or the bodies of people who annoyed you on message boards. In a sterile environment, soil does not occur.

Cute. Thankfully, you don't know where I live, so my body won't be exploring your compost pile anytime soon if this post irritates you.

However, I feel it necessary to point out that withered bananas are not immortal. Yes, a year from now it may still be a (somewhat withered-er) banana, but a thousand years from now it will be quite a bit closer to soil - even without bacteria. Given a million years simple erosion and trace radiation from space (and more so from the sun) will eventually reduce that banana peel to dust - which is close enough to soil for my taste.

Just look at the moon. Scientists are still wondering how to deal with the dust that covers its surface - from a few to potentially a few hundred meters thick. Apparently it gets into everything not absolutely air-tight and can readily muck things up.

 

[Nyeshet]

Cityscape - Maps

Is it just me, or do those cities seem awfully empty? The first map in the map gallery has a wall around it, but some of the areas near some lengths of that wall seem to have few or no buildings. And both maps have interior regions that have few if any buildings.

 

[coyote6]

I haven't seen the book, but maybe the empty areas are parks?

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

As to Eberron, that's certainly the epitome of applying postmodern attitude to fantasy, intentionally trying to fly in the face of convention. I didn't say that unconventional perspectives exist or lack validity, I'm just estabishing that's what we're talking about here.

Eberron is actually pretty tame when considered how "far out" some other fantasy settings are. Scarred Lands, Oathbound, GURPS Fantasy II: The Madlands, Skrealms of Jorune, Tekumel and many others deviate more from "standard fantasy" than Eberron. Eberron is just the most unconvential setting published by Wizards of the Coast - which isn't saying much.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

Is it a better ecosystem- for some organisms, yes. But those, such as American cockroaches, are much less diverse than those that were replaced. So, in the grand scheme, they are negative influence upon the global ecology.

Here in Germany, we have the phenomenon that many areas ("Kulturlandschaft") that have been altered by humans are actually more diverse in the species that inhabit them it had been the case before. And certainly cities can be built to accomodate more complex ecosystems with more species than it would be usually the case.

So let's say that you are a druid. You realize that cities are unlikely to go away. Do you still rail against their Evils, or do you actively try to make cities become a part of nature? The latter would seem to be more productive to me.

And there is ample evidence that this is possible - even in "standard" fantasy. Witness Silverymoon of the Forgotten Realms - or the innumerable elven communities that exist in woodland areas.