Clarke's principle on its head

[hong]

Any sufficiently convenient magic is indistinguishable from technology.

*GODS* *DAMMIT* Dogbrain, stop *STEALING* *MY* *SCHTICK*.


*HONG* "quoted by the stars" *OOI*

 

[Magus Coeruleus]

Clarke's Third Law
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Gregory Benford's Corollary to Clarke's Third Law
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.

 

[Telperion]

Clarke's Third Law
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Gregory Benford's Corollary to Clarke's Third Law
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.

Have any of you read Ilium by Dan Simmons? It illustrates the above points quite nicely

 

[Dogbrain]

You could do things with magic that you can't with tech. Eg: make fireball out of thin air, no machines or other things needed.

You fixate on appearances in order to ignore the principle. A sufficiently convenient magic is socially and culturally indistinguishable from technology.

 

[Snoweel]

You fixate on appearances in order to ignore the principle.

That happens a fair bit around here. People with nothing interesting of their own to say like to rubbish other peoples' ideas, often taking things out of context.

Don't feel bad.

 

[Zimri]

I agree completely!
That's the main reason I don't run my campaign in the Forgotten Realms - it's just too easy for someone with money (read: PC's) to get anything they need. After a few levels getting rich (compared to a commoner), you really have to wonder why anyone would continue to adventure when they can live in safety and comfort, with all the magical conveniences today's big cities have (international trade bringing goods from distant lands, well lit and patrolled streets, indoor and underground plumbing systems, etc).

Fairly difficult to live in safety and comfort when things keep threatening that safety and comfort.

Darn fiends, vengeful emperors, and insane wizards always ruining your day or threatening your way of life somehow.

 

[Desdichado]

You could do things with magic that you can't with tech. Eg: make fireball out of thin air, no machines or other things needed. reason for adventuring: well that would be a dream job in my opinion like being an exporer or fighting dragons. sounds like the best life posible to me

Well, it's not really thin air, is it? You still need the material components. You could come up with a technological solution to the same thing, of course, with a little work.

I think Dogbrain's got a point. Then again, I'm an avowed "LM/GnG" guy, so naturally I would think that, wouldn't I?

 

[Henry]

You fixate on appearances in order to ignore the principle. A sufficiently convenient magic is socially and culturally indistinguishable from technology.

In the surface veneer, this is true. It's when peeling that surface that it falls apart. I know, because when my players have in the past tried to assume that magic works predictably, and have said, "THAT NPC CAN'T DO THAT! THERE"S NO SPELL THAT LETS HIM DO THAT!" that I have reminded them of the folly of assuming they know everything.

On the other hand, when I have a modern day game, and some character breaks the laws of physics (say, walking off of a tall building and staying in the air while running), I have just left the comfortable bounds of pseudo-realism and leapt straight into science fiction. He'd better be held up by wires, or someone had better be dreaming. With a fantasy/magic game, someone can do something completely outrageous, and still be well within fantasy.

 

[Dogbrain]

In the surface veneer, this is true. It's when peeling that surface that it falls apart. I know, because when my players have in the past tried to assume that magic works predictably

But isn't that what a very large number of gamers presume, that "magic" is convenient, readily available, reliable, and predictable? In essence, vanilla D&D magic (and OGL magic from Hasbro is a form of vanilla D&D) is a technology. There's nothing at all magical about it.

 

[Mystery Man]

I agree completely!
That's the main reason I don't run my campaign in the Forgotten Realms - it's just too easy for someone with money (read: PC's) to get anything they need. After a few levels getting rich (compared to a commoner), you really have to wonder why anyone would continue to adventure when they can live in safety and comfort, with all the magical conveniences today's big cities have (international trade bringing goods from distant lands, well lit and patrolled streets, indoor and underground plumbing systems, etc).

Ah here we go again. Blame the setting not the DM.

Fairly difficult to live in safety and comfort when things keep threatening that safety and comfort.

Darn fiends, vengeful emperors, and insane wizards always ruining your day or threatening your way of life somehow.

An example of a slice of life outside the box.