D&D General D&D is now Steampunk (poll)

[Charlaquin]

I have to admit, that version sounds less appealing to me.

How appealing either is will depend on your familiarity with and attachment to the things being referenced. I know what most of the referents in the latter description are, whereas apart from Aragorn, Galahad, and Dracula, I’m only vaguely aware of the other referents in the former description. Like, I’ve heard that the D&D troll is famously inspired by Three Hearts and Three Lions, but I’ve never heard of this book in any other context than explaining the inspiration behind D&D’s trolls, let alone read it. The thing with cultural touchstones is they change as culture changes. D&D has always been a pastiche, but what it’s a pastiche of is naturally going to evolve over time.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It hasn't been medieval fantasy since 2nd edition unfortunately.

Coincidentally, my favorite version of AD&D and the one my personal vision of the game adheres most closely to. Maybe that's why I feel the aesthetic has slipped farther and farther away from my preference.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I have to admit, that version sounds less appealing to me.

Personally I don't much like Drizzt do'Urden but Raven is one of my favourite fictional characters. The four travellers in The Wonderful Wizard of Oz seem like a good model for a PC group, which is fairly rare in fantasy fiction. @talien has talked about Oz as a source for 5th ed D&D.

My own experience of D&D, starting with Moldvay D&D in '82 was that we played humans or humans-with-pointy-ears up until I was in a group that used the 3e supplement Savage Species in the early oughts.

D&D itself has gone thru periods of greater and lesser 'Mos Eisley Cantina'-ness since its inception. 1974 OD&D mentions the possibility of a balrog PC, while in Holmes Basic a centaur and a lawful werebear were considered reasonable PCs. The core rules of AD&D 1e and 2e and B/X Moldvay and Mentzer became more restrictive. WotC D&D in some respects represents a return to the Cantina.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The thing about medieval is you can do it in D&D. I know people who have run games inspired by real world history. Any you know what? Those games in no way resemble the style or vibe of early D&D.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Personally I don't much like Drizzt do'Urden but Raven is one of my favourite fictional characters. The four travellers in The Wonderful Wizard of Oz seem like a good model for a PC group, which is fairly rare in fantasy fiction. @talien has talked about Oz as a source for 5th ed D&D.

My own experience of D&D, starting with Moldvay D&D in '82 was that we played humans or humans-with-pointy-ears up until I was in a group that used the 3e supplement Savage Species in the early oughts.

D&D itself has gone thru periods of greater and lesser 'Mos Eisley Cantina'-ness since its inception. 1974 OD&D mentions the possibility of a balrog PC, while in Holmes Basic a centaur and a lawful werebear were considered reasonable PCs. The core rules of AD&D 1e and 2e and B/X Moldvay and Mentzer became more restrictive. WotC D&D in some represents a return to the Cantina.

Well, that explains things for me. I see the core D&D-type aesthetic as adhering to those core rules presented in 1e, 2e, and B/X as you say. Anything else is D&D+ to me. I love D&D+, play with it all the time. But I appreciate reaching for it from the aforementioned aesthetic as a baseline. Starting at D&D+ and then adding more pluses is less comfortable personally, and while I can and do subtract pluses when I want, it's always more of a pain in the butt to push against player expectations that are accustomed to more plus as a default.

There's nothing to be done about it, of course, but it's irksome and I won't say it isn't.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The thing about medieval is you can do it in D&D. I know people who have run games inspired by real world history. Any you know what? Those games in no way resemble the style or vibe of early D&D.

Is it just the lack of magic? Where would you say the most obvious differences lie?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Is it just the lack of magic? Where would you say the most obvious differences lie?

Culture, society, religion, personal freedom, laws, obligations, travel, property, the way people dress, what and when they eat.

Magic? Nah. People believe in that. So long as every other person the PCs meet isn’t a spellcaster you’re fine.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Like, I’ve heard that the D&D troll is famously inspired by Three Hearts and Three Lions, but I’ve never heard of this book in any other context than explaining the inspiration behind D&D’s trolls, let alone read it.

I'd recommend reading Three Hearts if you're interested in the sources of D&D, mostly because it's one of the two main inspirations for alignment, along with Michael Moorcock. There's a lot of D&D to be found in The Hobbit, Three Hearts and Three Lions, Stormbringer, the 20-page Dying Earth story "Mazirian the Magician", and some of the early Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser tales like "The Jewels in the Forest" and "Thieves' House".

 

[Micah Sweet]

Culture, society, religion, personal freedom, laws, obligations, travel, property, the way people dress, what and when they eat.

Magic? Nah. People believe in that. So long as every other person the PCs meet isn’t a spellcaster you’re fine.

I've always felt the biggest thing you would need to emphasize for a more historical game is just how strongly people believe in the supernatural, including religion. It is absolutely real to most folk in any pre-modern period in a way a lot of people nowadays would likely have a hard time comprehending.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I've always felt the biggest thing you would need to emphasize for a more historical game is just how strongly people believe in the supernatural, including religion. It is absolutely real to most folk in any pre-modern period in a way a lot of people nowadays would likely have a hard time comprehending.

Yep. I commented on this on another thread yesterday. And the easiest way to get the players to adopt such a historical mindset is simply to have that stuff to be real in the game, backed by the rules.