D&D General D&D is now Steampunk (poll)

[NN]

its steamless steampunk and yes i ****ing hate it

 

[Paul Farquhar]

This is for you in case your a fan...

Strangely, even though I'm a fan of Moorcock and an 80s D&D player, I don't like metal music!

 

[SkidAce]

Strangely, even though I'm a fan of Moorcock and an 80s D&D player, I don't like metal music!

Thats fair. There are some fantasy based songs out there that aren't metal, but perhaps thats a tangent.

 

[earthsea_wizard]

I feel that this 2010 quote from Rob Kuntz is relevant here.

He posits that medieval fantasy was only a weighed commerical decision that was only meant to be limited to D&Ds introduction, and that he and Gary felt that the game was capable of much more, and that they experimented with many different genres in their play, which they felt was appropriate to the spirit of the game. They seemed to have felt that the sword and sorcery entrapment was limiting. He states that succeeding generations of DMs have missed out on the richness of playing in varying genres.

But, “Why machines,” you ask? Gary and I would have simply answered back then, “Why not?” This was a time when the literature we read was a mix of many subjects and genres: fantasy, horror, noir fiction, history, military history, science and science fiction. Therein lies a clue to the richness of our adventures, a richness which I often feel is now partly lost to succeeding generations of DMs and gamers. And that is: A story is a story, no matter how you wrench the mechanic to make it fit into a game. Gary and I were well read storytellers. Our players were well read gamers. Storytelling and story “acceptance” was a natural state between its then participant groups.

Even though our genre inclusive game experience was soon to be fragmented into several RPG types—with medieval fantasy claiming sole rights in the original version of the game--this initial segmentation was a weighed choice made for D&D’s immediate commercial introduction only. We had previously felt that the game had more range and infinitely more possibilities than what the lone S&S element produced.

While perusing the DMG’s sections for including different genres within the expanding game, one does not feel that these are hurried attachments of after-matter by EGG. To the contrary, EGG’s up front insistence of Barsoom’s relevance in his original foreword had already paved the way for Hiero’s Journey in Appendix N. This “addenda” was in fact the natural outgrowth of both our realized views as experienced through play, 1972 onward. While EGG honored Jack Vance with his Dirdir level, I did the same for C. A. Smith & Lovecraft with my Lost City of the Elders (which more recent convention-players have experienced and where mutated creatures and hovering metal devices were seen and fled from).

After D&D’s release, Gary and I continued to experiment with SF and other genres, but this time by way of both play and through publication: We were to co-create Expedition to the Barrier Peaks; we encouraged the creation of Metamorphosis Alpha and adventured upon the Starship Warden; there could soon be found my mysterious and wily visitor from the stars known as Cosmodius that Ward’s Bombadil contested with for his vast knowledge of technology; select items of a SF nature were placed at key locations in both our castles; and there would be some inclusions of M.A.R. Barker’s Tekumel “magic” and creatures in the Bottle City level and upon the outdoor. I created many SF-variant creatures and sluiced them into our city, one by the name of “modern man.”

Further, horror would often closely meld with SF and S&S elements to promote a cosmic terror by way of alien locales, their technologies and an ancient, arcane magic, all of which was realized through play in secreted settings (ala A. Merritt, C. A. Smith or Lovecraft). One such place was Fomalhaut, yet another large adventure I designed to keep the adventurers quite curious of their newfound surroundings just prior to terrifying them. As you can note, EGG and I were very diligent in keeping our adventures, and the adventurers, fresh.

These were not meaningless contrivances by us; and neither of us lacked the creative verve for producing solely mundane or earthly elements or situations. We knew the players would not only be intrigued through such imaginative story matter, but they would be wondrous about where it derived from. Through these relations we were promoting story by introducing several elements that good storytellers use: intrigue and suspense.

Because of our openness to elements that could be easily fitted into any storyline Gary and I never lacked for stimulating or compelling story matter. We were both willing and able to include whatever it took to keep the story interesting for the players. And that’s the real answer to the question, “Why machines?” Just as important, and from a design view, this kept us constantly fresh as DMs, as we were always alert to the possibilities of creative inclusion of any type of material, however varied in content.

So. Now is the time to strap on your gear as EGG did back in 1973! And forget your prayers. For upon this level there reside no gods of flesh…

Rob Kuntz
10 October 2010

 

[DragonLancer]

It's an interesting read. I think my view of D&D was coloured by what brought me into D&D, namely Fighting Fantasy gamebooks, the old animated Lord of the Rings and fantasy movies like Clash of the Titans. Fantasy was medieval or classic fantasy and science fiction was (athough something I loved) science fiction. Oil and water. It's a view that has stuck with me a lot over the years and only recently (Arcane is to blame) that my view has shifted somewhat. I still wouldn't have starships and laser pistols, but airships and steampunk artifice now have a place in my D&D.

 

[earthsea_wizard]

It's an interesting read. I think my view of D&D was coloured by what brought me into D&D, namely Fighting Fantasy gamebooks, the old animated Lord of the Rings and fantasy movies like Clash of the Titans. Fantasy was medieval or classic fantasy and science fiction was (athough something I loved) science fiction. Oil and water. It's a view that has stuck with me a lot over the years and only recently (Arcane is to blame) that my view has shifted somewhat. I still wouldn't have starships and laser pistols, but airships and steampunk artifice now have a place in my D&D.

People keep talking about Arcane and while I am interested in watching it I am actually afraid it will ruin Eberron for me as people, including Keith Baker, keep saying that it's the closest example of what Sharn is like in his head that we'll get from TV. Sharn in my head looks like a Yoshitaka Amano painting and feels like a city from Dying Earth meets Discworld meets Moebius.

 

[Igor Mendonça]

I do not agree with this idea.

The best I would say is that the agnostic features of the game now includes lots of tropes that come from settings like Eberron, as well as features based on tech gnomes/goblins from other sources.

With that possibility in mind, I would argue that you could include basic D&D features into the magitek setting trope.

Magitek - TV Tropes

Advanced, ubiquitous magic always seems to end up working just like technology. The car engine might be powered by a fire elemental, and the telephone may work through the principle of contagion, but this doesn't affect the man on the street.

tvtropes.org

 

[Steel Rabbit]

D&D is, and has always been post-apocalyptic. Where have all these dungeons and lost empires come from? Why do governmental structures function more like the old west than catholic-feudal?

 

[Nicholas Reed]

I would say the default D&D world implied by the SRD is firmly Victorian Aetherpunk.

 

[Igor Mendonça]

D&D is, and has always been post-apocalyptic. Where have all these dungeons and lost empires come from? Why do governmental structures function more like the old west than catholic-feudal?

That’s actually a really interesting argument, and I think there’s a historical parallel that makes it even richer: the Bronze Age Collapse. Around 1200 BCE, a perfect storm of structural problems—severe droughts, political crises, and large-scale invasions from the mysterious Sea Peoples—brought down an entire interconnected system of trade and culture, almost like an apocalyptic reset. Coastal city-states were destroyed, Egypt never fully recovered its old power, and some civilizations, like the Mycenaean Greeks, even lost the knowledge of writing for centuries.
Out of this collapse came many of the traditions that still puzzle us today, such as the stories found in the Old Testament, or the epic cycles like the Iliad and Odyssey. Later civilizations—the Greeks, Persians, and Romans—were essentially living in a world filled with abandoned infrastructure, undeciphered texts, and mysterious ruins. For centuries, people only had fragmentary “shadows” of that earlier era, preserved in myths such as the Flood story, Babylonian legends, or the tale of the Minotaur.
Seen this way, the idea that D&D settings are post-apocalyptic worlds isn’t that far-fetched—they reflect something that really did happen in our world. If you’re a DM, I’d highly recommend digging into the Bronze Age Collapse for inspiration. It’s full of material that can enrich your campaigns with a sense of lost knowledge, ancient mysteries, and the echoes of fallen civilizations.