Class being penalized for doing its thing?

[Agamon]

It means exactly this, they don't want people to have less fun because they have to fill necessary roles.

Current dnd needs a healer. But for most people playing a healer is boring. I'm a cleric with all of these cool spells, and they go to waste because I have to heal.

Playing a tank is boring for some people. I just mark off damage on my sheet. Its not the thrill of doing massive damage with a big weapon.

What they will likely do is make it where healing no longer consumes magical energy used for other things. The cleric can heal and still kick ass.

For the tank, they may include offensive options within the defense. The iron heroes armiger is a good example of this, the more you hit him the cooler he gets.

I see it the exact opposite way. To paraphrase a quote from a WotC dude (can't remember which one) "Each PC will fill a niche like players on sports team." That means each class will specialize in what it does best and won't step on the toes of the other classes.

Clerics will heal. Wizards will blast. Fighters will tank.

 

[WhatGravitas]

"I have the Excellent Prismatic Spray."

And if Gandalf could do that ray of light thing all day, wouldn't he?

And this is the reason, why arguing about this topic based on fiction is... something, where you can't agree. Because fantasy is very varied.

Hence, turn to the game: What is more fun? What is more interesting? How can you share the spotlight between all players?

If the wizzy goes into "crossbow-mode", the player is bored. He's distracted. Or he does that pre-emptively, because he want to reserve his spells for later.

Give the player something more interesting to do, than hoping for that natural 20 to hit with 1d10 damage. It doesn't need to be "arcane blasting"... but stuff, like knowledge-based commander role, minor magics to stifle the opponent (minor warding signs and so on), able to heal/protect his friends...

Even Gandalf wade into melee, smashing people with his (probably magically-empowered) longsword and stuff.

Disclaimer: I've ignored my Tolkien-knowledge of Gandalf being a Maiar for the statement above.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Wormwood]

I think wizards should have to pull out crossbows. In most fantasy fiction, mages don't cast spells all danged day.

Strict adherence to fantasy fiction (a term that can be so narrowly or broadly defined that it is essentially meaningless) doesn't necessarily translate into enjoyable play at the table.

 

[Hjorimir]

Fighters should be the best fighters, regardless of how other classes build themselves, but that doesn't mean there is no room for a cleric or rogue to be effective in melee combat. They just should not eclipse the fighter in that gig.

 

[KingCrab]

I see it the exact opposite way. To paraphrase a quote from a WotC dude (can't remember which one) "Each PC will fill a niche like players on sports team." That means each class will specialize in what it does best and won't step on the toes of the other classes.

Clerics will heal. Wizards will blast. Fighters will tank.

And so ends my many edition streak of playing clerics. Gee, I get to heal someone again this round? How fascinating. 3.x (and 2ed faiths and avatars) clerics rocked. Be a shame to pretty much end the class by making it one only an NPC would be willing to go into.

 

[Gentlegamer]

I really hope they don't turn the Wizard class into an eldritch bolt blasting artillery piece.

I'm for the concept of "per encounter" and added magical resources that aren't always drained, but I hope this is isn't on the side of more "damage" spells.

 

[Quasqueton]

I didn't mean this thread to get turned into another D&D4 speculation discussion. I was asking about how classes in BD&D, AD&D1, AD&D2, and D&D3 were "penalized" for doing their things.


As for whether people would play a strictly-healing cleric, I've seen players of a FPS computer game specifically clamor for such a thing.

I used to play Day of Defeat---WWII unit combat---and there was always a call by some players for the developers to add a medic class. There were people who specifically wanted to play a support class, who did nothing more than run around patching up wounded comrades. That sounded like the most boring FPS character class ever. But I could play one in a table-top RPG.

Quasqueton

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

And so ends my many edition streak of playing clerics. Gee, I get to heal someone again this round? How fascinating. 3.x (and 2ed faiths and avatars) clerics rocked. Be a shame to pretty much end the class by making it one only an NPC would be willing to go into.

I'd like to think further. If this solution sounds boring, maybe that's not the solution 4th edition will use? Maybe healing will no longer be the Cleric's stick? Maybe he can do it while doing the really cool stuff a Cleric should do (getting aid by divine entities and unleashing his gods fury?).

 

[Father of Dragons]

"I have the Excellent Prismatic Spray."

And if Gandalf could do that ray of light thing all day, wouldn't he?

In fiction, a spell caster runs out of magic when it is dramatically necessary. In a D&D expedition, it is seldom dramatically necessary or desirable for them to run out of magic.

 

[Victim]

I didn't mean this thread to get turned into another D&D4 speculation discussion. I was asking about how classes in BD&D, AD&D1, AD&D2, and D&D3 were "penalized" for doing their things.


As for whether people would play a strictly-healing cleric, I've seen players of a FPS computer game specifically clamor for such a thing.

I used to play Day of Defeat---WWII unit combat---and there was always a call by some players for the developers to add a medic class. There were people who specifically wanted to play a support class, who did nothing more than run around patching up wounded comrades. That sounded like the most boring FPS character class ever. But I could play one in a table-top RPG.

Quasqueton

That's right, some people do want to play a support class. But for other people it's boring. So how do you make support fun for more people? Can support roles be fun, but not necessary? If they are necessary, can someone relegate the support stuff to a before/after combat role and still kick ass during the fight?