Class Imbalance?

[slingbld]

Argh. Neither Montes Sorcerer nor any other special feats or lineages from Scarred Lands stuff gets the mark "balanced" in my book. I don't mind if others use it... but making a class that might be a little bit weak lots stronger is no fix for me.

I don't feel Monte's Sorcerer is overpowered. The spell list is trunicated. They are more limited to what spells they can choose to take. He also gave them more skills & skill points, something that I feel helps bring them in line with the fixes that some of the other classes got like the ranger and bard.

But in the end it is a matter of personal preferrence.

Just remember the golden rule. "HAVE FUN"

 

[Shadowdweller]

My problem with sorcerors is (like that of many others) not so much that they are underpowered, but that they are underpowered as compared to wizards, and possibly other casters.

Oddly enough, I did not find this to be the case in 3.0. What really has made the difference is the change of haste (which sorcerors frequently could afford to cast with their high number of spells/day), and the advent of metamagic rods amongst the core material. A wizard right now can, although granted at a hefty wealth investment, cast quickened ninth levels spells as soon as they are obtained. (read: rod of greater quickening)

The ability to cast 2 spells/round as opposed to one is a significant power difference. And the sorceror, uniquely amongst the specialized casters, is incapable of doing such.

 

[Hardhead]

I chose "other," but I *do* believe that they're slightly underpowered. IMC, they get four skill points, and a few more CHA-related skills.

 

[DarkMaster]

Acutally sorcerer can learn any spell he wants. In my campaign the player met a witch which was casting cure light wounds. The sorcerer by default will use the wizard spell list but it doesn't have to.

from the SRD

These new spells can be common spells chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of by study.

This can add some flavour to your sorcerer.

 

[Pax]

Unusual arcane spells, DarkMaster. There is a limit.

On top of which, the GM has to approve -- and my first sorceror, I was willing to pick up Cure Light Wounds early on, to cover the fact that the party didn't have a Cleric ... the GM was opposed to the very concept, however, despite CLW being an arane spell on teh BArd's spell list.

*shrug*

The only spells you can count on being able to learn, are those on the Sor/Wiz list. Anything else is a campaign-specific exception.

 

[Otterscrubber]

I'm surprised so many people consider sorcerers "bland". I don't see how that can be; Classes are not bland only those who play them. I knew a guy playing a rogue/paladin, a combo that is about as chocked full of skills and special abilities as you can get and he ended up being the blandest character in our group. So bland the player only played that character for 2 sessions before getting bored and making another one. On the other hand the sorcerer in the group came up with some surprisingly creative uses for the spells that he had carefully chosen and is played to this day in a higher level campaign.

 

[Schmoe]

I'm not sure that the class is that poorly balanced, but it is poorly designed. For a class that is supposed to cover charismatic individuals that get by on force of personality, the class should have some social skills. In addition, the Wizard's naturally high intelligence counteracts the limited base number of skill points, but sorcerers do not have that advantage, and so are forced to rely on a very limited selection of skills to complement their very limited selection of spells, along with their nearly nonexistent selection of ranged and melee physical attacks.

I've house-ruled the sorcerer with three minor fixes:

1.) 4 skill points per level
2.) Bluff, Disguise, Diplomacy, and Animal Handling are class skills
3.) Sorcerer spells are cast as if with the feat Eschew Materials

So far the changes have provided the sorcerer with a little more flavor and versatility, while not significantly changing the power level of the class.

 

[Humanophile]

Since this thread is drifting into house rules, I'm curious how my take on the sorcerer will come over. I'm in full agreement that the class is somewhat bland, but powerwise very on the money. (Matter of fact, in 2ed, wizards were played almost exactly like sorcerers are now, which says some things about interest in the play style.)

I give them Intimidate and Use Magic Device as class skills, and I'm thinking about adding Knowledge: the planes too. This expands their Charisma-base, while keeping them from stepping on the bard's toes (which giving them many Charisma skills does, and giving them 4 sp/lvl definately does), and focuses on their fey/alien nature. They're good at dealing with you in the moment, but long-term social planning is not especially the sorcerer's forte.

I give them a special ability, Nimbus, which basically lets them cast Faerie Fire on themselves at will, but they describe what the nimbus looks like, and they get +2 on Intimidate checks while it's active. Gives them both a little more flavor, plus gets sorcerer players in the mindset of forcing spell effects to follow a theme. (Such as a fire sorcerer taking Fly, and having it give him flaming wings, leaving a trail of flame behind him, etc.)

At 13th level, they're raised to knowing 5 third level spells per day, and and at 17th level they know 4 sixth level spells per day. This makes it slightly less irksome that they lose spell growth just when some of the niftiest spells come into play (and admit it, third level is a gem), and makes the spells known breakup more even. Instead of being a 9-55-444-3333 spread at 20'th level, they break down into a more even 555-444-333.

I've been considering letting them swap out the familiar to upgrade their hit dice to a d6, think this is about right balancewise but don't know how it'd feel as flavor. And I like forcing spell effects to come with the spells, as mentioned above, but this tends to come with more story/narrative oriented groups. Of course, this is nicely balanced by the fact that more combat/tactical oriented groups are happy enough with the sorcerer's machine-gun ability. Puzzle oriented groups would probably prefer a wizard, but then such games tend to reward toolbox characters anyhow.