D&D (2024) Classes: What changes do you predict?

[Remathilis]

What kind of changes are being made to classes?

Less than are needed, more than people want.

 

[Remathilis]

I predict Fighters will get Superiority Dice by default rather then it just being part of one subclass

From your fingers to Crawford's eyeballs.

 

[Aldarc]

Perhaps in general, and I do expect some serious surprises on that front, but thatnot the best example. Forum discourse aside, D&D Beyond data shows that the Wild Mage is extremely popular...the second most popular Sorcerer Subclass, and it isn't even close.

The D&D Beyond data I recall showed the three most popular single-classed Sorcerer subclasses as (1) Draconic (28%); (2) Divine Soul (22%); and (3) Shadow (20%) for those who had everything unlocked.

The Wild Mage was the second most popular Sorcerer subclass in single-class characters who didn't have everything unlocked (i.e., more than the SRD or PHB), but that changes when looking at the bigger picture. Then it's as above.

I'd like to see the Four Elements Monk replaced with...four Subclasses, each one for an Element.

While we are on Monks...I don't think the Orientalist elements can stand, so I think theybwill try to shake that off.

I'm not sure what they will end up doing to the monk. I do agree that I wish the monk was less orientalist and maybe more neutral, such as gaining their powers from their vows or oaths, but that is more wish than prediction.

 

[James Gasik]

The Bard class will be expanded, and Fighter, Rogue, and Druid will become Bard subclasses, to really get that 1e feel. They will no longer have a set spell list, instead having Songs of Creation, which allows then to cast any spell in existence based on their level, in a similar fashion to Pact magic, but instead of being renewed on a short rest, they are renewed by drinking at a tavern.

Summon Drink and Find Tavern will be cantrips for them, though they won't cost anything and will be given for free.

Also, they can use musical instruments a number of times each day equal to their proficiency bonus to cast a spell, specific to that instrument. This will include:

Flutes can cast Sleep.

Lutes can cast Charm Maiden.

Bagpipes can cast Haste.

Ocarinas can cast Time Stop.

Sorcerers will gain a Bardic Origin, as Bards are the primary reason most Sorcerers exist, having bred with various things (some of which are impossible) to create Sorcerous Bloodlines.

 

[FireLance]

Do you think your Wu-Tang guitar can defeat me?

I'll see your guitar and raise you a violin.

 

[Parmandur]

The D&D Beyond data I recall showed the three most popular single-classed Sorcerer subclasses as (1) Draconic (28%); (2) Divine Soul (22%); and (3) Shadow (20%) for those who had everything unlocked.

The Wild Mage was the second most popular Sorcerer subclass in single-class characters who didn't have everything unlocked (i.e., more than the SRD or PHB), but that changes when looking at the bigger picture. Then it's as above.


I'm not sure what they will end up doing to the monk. I do agree that I wish the monk was less orientalist and maybe more neutral, such as gaining their powers from their vows or oaths, but that is more wish than prediction.

Ah, I see what I was looking st, then. Still, the Wild Mage hasn't been ill received per se, and in my experience it is actually pretty effective in play.

I do think some sort of reckoning for the Monk and Barbarian is likely, given the changing climate in society (and about time). I just don't think they can get away with that in 2024, and that they know it, too.

 

[Aldarc]

Ah, I see what I was looking st, then. Still, the Wild Mage hasn't been ill received per se, and in my experience it is actually pretty effective in play.

I do think some sort of reckoning for the Monk and Barbarian is likely, given the changing climate in society (and about time). I just don't think they can get away with that in 2024, and that they know it, too.

I don't think that the Wild Mage is ill-received but it is less popular than other subclasses.

So it's a question for me about whether WotC will stick to the subclasses that are in the 2014 PHB for the sake of preserving that or whether they will use the opportunity to switch things around based on trends over the past decade. The latter seems more useful when it comes to updating the game for their expected 2024 client base rather than their prior 2014 client base.

I don't expect that the PHB will get much bigger. It needs to be useable. So something will need to get the axe to accomodate the space. Things may be added to One D&D, but things will also need to be subtracted to accomodate the limited space.

For example, I don't think that having one wizard subclass per tradition is a good use of space.

 

[Bluenose]

Barbarian - probably not going to see much change, though they might add resistance while ranging to force damage after virtually every creature with magical s/p/b damage had it switched to force damage in MotM. Or that might be the point of the change, a stealth nerf for barbarians.
Bard - without their own specific spell list with the switch to Arcane/Divine/Primal combined lists, I'm not sure where they'll go with the Bard's spells. This assumes Cure Wounds wouldn't be stuck into the Arcane list, but the current Bard has a mix from several lists.
Cleric - no change likely here, though some of the subclasses are likely to be balanced better
Druid - as with Cleric, any changes are likely to be in the subclasses for better balance. Primal spell list, of course.
Fighter - they're not going to do much. WotC won't make Fighter that does anything but dumb thug as the default, and certainly aren't going to let one class overshadow the others in combat so it stays as is. It will live or die for usefulness based on what the high level feats do, and I wouldn't expect much
Monk - still won't work. Drop it if the concept is so vague.
Paladin - unlikely to see change at all, certainly nothing large, and probably doesn't need it.
Ranger - will end up becoming mildly useful a few years later after some splats have provided extra features
Rogue - well someone has to be there so the wizard doesn't have to waste spell slots opening locks when they could do important things with them. Unfair, but this isn't a character that's going to steal from the gods at 20th level without a lot more.
Sorceror - Don't think it'll happen but a sorceror who could pick any of the spell lists (and had to stick to it) would cover a lot of "instinctive/natural" spellcasters, ones who don't rely on book learning but simply have the ability. The illiterate prophet of a god, granted magic not through the church, the wild magician with no idea where there powers come from, the hermit of the wilds with strange abilities. Or it could be another way to access arcane spells.
Warlock - probably not much different, people including WotC designers seem pretty satisfied with it
Wizard - pretty sure there are people who won't be satisfied if it doesn't get a significant power increase, whether that's needed or not. While they're not explicitly saying, "Wizards need to have more stuff they can do," there are already people arguing for extra skills to be awarded for high intelligence and with the Wizard likely being the only PHB class using Int... It probably doesn't need too much but will get some extras anyway

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I do think some sort of reckoning for the Monk and Barbarian is likely, given the changing climate in society (and about time). I just don't think they can get away with that in 2024, and that they know it, too.

I dunno if that's true.

Remember lineage? And how it went back to being race?

Pathfinder 2E is kind of the "mine canary" here. People who like D&D-ish games but are more "right-on" are often PF2 fans/boosters, because, frankly, PF2 has done a better job with diversity/modernity etc. Part of this is having a specific setting - Golarion - which they were able to update timeline-wise to get rid of stuff they didn't like. Part of it is that their core team is I believe more diverse and certainly has better instincts than WotC on this kind of thing. I don't think WotC are less committed to be clear, but they're not doing as well (even with this playtest they misstepped on half-races and by assigning languages to jobs - even I, only mildly "woke" (due to my 44-year-old decrepitude) when "UH OH" when I saw the languages assigned to jobs thing).

Anyway, whatever, point is they're basically a couple of years ahead, minimum, of where WotC is (at least for the last few years).

And they still have Barbarians and Monks (even still called that). I also don't see much discussion on left-RPG-Twitter of Barbarian anymore. A few years ago people were like "Omg so problematic!". Now it seems almost like it's been accepted as a class-name not connected to real-world stuff (not sure that's quite right...). I dunno if that'll stick but...

Worth noting PF2 Monks aren't forced-Shaolin Monks like 5E though - that's one option among many due to the way PF2 uses Feats (which ends up being more like Warlock Eldritch Invocations than D&D's Feats).

 

[Mind of tempest]

I dunno if that's true.

Remember lineage? And how it went back to being race?

Pathfinder 2E is kind of the "mine canary" here. People who like D&D-ish games but are more "right-on" are often PF2 fans/boosters, because, frankly, PF2 has done a better job with diversity/modernity etc. Part of this is having a specific setting - Golarion - which they were able to update timeline-wise to get rid of stuff they didn't like. Part of it is that their core team is I believe more diverse and certainly has better instincts than WotC on this kind of thing. I don't think WotC are less committed to be clear, but they're not doing as well (even with this playtest they misstepped on half-races and by assigning languages to jobs - even I, only mildly "woke" (due to my 44-year-old decrepitude) when "UH OH" when I saw the languages assigned to jobs thing).

Anyway, whatever, point is they're basically a couple of years ahead, minimum, of where WotC is (at least for the last few years).

And they still have Barbarians and Monks (even still called that). I also don't see much discussion on left-RPG-Twitter of Barbarian anymore. A few years ago people were like "Omg so problematic!". Now it seems almost like it's been accepted as a class-name not connected to real-world stuff. I dunno if that'll stick but...

Worth noting PF2 Monks aren't forced-Shaolin Monks like 5E though - that's one option among many due to the way PF2 uses Feats (which ends up being more like Warlock Eldritch Invocations than D&D's Feats).

the monk always badly needs an overhaul and that is just the name.