Classes: You're designing the next PHB, and...

[Tatsukun]

What if you don't want classes in the next PHB?
Can there be a "None, make them feats / point buy" kind of answer?

-Tatsu

 

[Beckett]

I like barbarians, but I really think it could be modeled by fighters with alternate feats and skill choices--far more so than any of the other "not-quite-base-four" archetypes.

D'oh, that makes a lot of sense. Wish I'd thought of it.

I ended up dropping the ranger for the scout, and the sorcerer for the warlock, my favorite classes from the Complete books. I'd considered dropping the druid, and covering it with cleric/prestige, but there just seemed too many abilities to delay it that long.

With the scout, I'd hope to mix it with elements of the ranger, so I don't fully lose that class.

Were I to keep the sorcerer, I'd want to also have the Favorer Soul; if there's an arcane spontaneous caster, there should be a divine one as well.

The warlock gets the nod for the very unique inate spell like abilities; hrm, maybe in the new Complete books that come after my new Player's Handbook, I'll work up a diviner version of the warlcok.

 

[Felon]

What if you don't want classes in the next PHB?
Can there be a "None, make them feats / point buy" kind of answer?

Well, there's not an option provided for it on the poll. That, combined with the fact that just about every other fantasy RPG already uses some kind of scratch-build method, I'd say "no". In fact, I'd say "no" a whole bunch.

 

[Arbiter of Wyrms]

Ditto. I replaced sorcerer with warmage -- it does what sorcerers want to do better, without being a totally different type of magic (sorry, warlocks, the 4E PHB doesn't need a unique-to-one-class magical system) -- added swashbuckler and that's it.

I have a different solution for the problem of Warlock standing out with their own system of magic: introduce more classes with invocations. I'm not ready to say that there should be no spontaneous casters, and I certainly think that more minor-spellcasting classes should prepare spells, but I think that invocations are sufficiently different, and sufficiently cool, to include more support, rather than being abandoned.

Whether it's with the warmage or the psion, I don't care - I think it depends on the kind of character the player wants - but I believe that the sorcerer has outlived his usefulness and should be replaced. It is a poor, or at least sub-optimal, execution of a terrific idea.

 

[Felon]

I never liked the Sorcerer (was just a weapons platform).

Oh my yes, heaven forbid that an arcane spellcaster be thought of as walking artillery. Lets get rid of the Fighter too (it's just a combat machine).

My picks:

The Four Cornerstones:
Fighter
Cleric
Wizard
Rogue

The Plug-n'-Players:
Barbarian
Sorcerer

The Support Specialists
Marshal
Scout
Spirit Shaman

Mind you, this list is built based on the options available and their current published incarnations.

I'd really like to put the Warlock in there amongst the Plug-n'-Players, but it's really a bit too much of a one-trick pony character, and I think too many of the invocations are pretty abusable given unlimited usage (the charm invocation has no business being lesser, and Chilling Tentacles just should not exist).

Favored Soul is a nice plug-n'-player as well, but it's just not that well-built, with every FS getting stuff like favored weapon feats and wings. When I think "Favored Soul of Vecna", I don't think of some dagger-fighter flitting around.

Healer had potential, but when you get right down to it, it can't do anything a cleric can't do, can't do many things a cleric can do, and in general seems like a class with a clear objective that it utterly fails to achieve.

I'd like the Monk to be sort of a martial version of the warlock, with a range of exotic attacks to choose from that have different "status" effects, such as stunning, blindness, ability drain, etc. Think of all the stuff the Fist of the North Star can do to a guy.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

And all you folks not voting for Marshal? C'mon, guys, there oughta a place for a tactical mastermind who adds brains to a bunch of brawn-heavy martial classes.

It's certainly more portable than the bard, I'll give ya that.

 

[Buttercup]

I'd be happy with Adept (or some generic magic using class), Aristocrat, Expert and Warrior as the 4 core classes, and I'd make everything else into 15 level prestige classes. But the poll didn't allow me to vote for those.

 

[Nellisir]

I like barbarians, but I really think it could be modeled by fighters with alternate feats and skill choices--far more so than any of the other "not-quite-base-four" archetypes. I like monks, but I'm in the camp that says "Present them in an OA supplement, with advice for working them into a non-Asian campaign."

My thoughts exactly.

And frankly, I just don't think sorcerers are sufficiently different from wizards to be the "innate caster" archetype.*
I've replaced them with warlock (who is a good innate caster...

I like the sorcerer/wizard variant you outlined. I don't like warlock *in the core rules* because it requires a special set of rules, so I went with sorcerer as the default (having played a warmage, I've found them very restrictive and monochromatic). And I'd like to see rangers lose their spells, go back up to a d10, and become slightly more "combat" oriented -- leaving scouts the "skilled" woodsman slot.

Cheers
Nell.

 

[Nellisir]

I'd be happy with Adept (or some generic magic using class), Aristocrat, Expert and Warrior as the 4 core classes, and I'd make everything else into 15 level prestige classes. But the poll didn't allow me to vote for those.

You should check out the True d20 rules from Green Ronin coming out in pdf this(?) week. 3 base classes (adept, expert, warrior), and customizable from there. Same system as the Blue Rose RPG, if you haven't seen that. I'm thinking of adopting it, or at least tweaking around with it.

Cheers
Nell.

 

[The_Gneech]

I'd really like to see a Noble and something akin to Conan's Scholar -- or possibly the both of them combined to a single class.

I voted for "Swashbuckler" as well, but upon reflection, I agree the fighter/rogue combination works for that as a core class.

Oh, and some viable warrior-mage type is sorely lacking. (Fighter/wizard just doesn't cut it -- he can't fight, and he can't do magic! Something closer to a cleric's BAB and hit die, but with the ability to cast arcane spells.)

-The Gneech