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Classless 4th edition

(Work in progress.)

I've tinkered with rules a lot. In 3e, I worked on the second version of Elements of Magic, which let you make your own spells, and combined all magic-users into one class. You got different styles of characters based on the choices you made for your 'magical tradition' and what types of magic you specialized in. I want to do something sort of similar for 4e.

Basically, I feel that while powers are interesting ideas, they unnecessarily stifle player creativity, and promote using your 'special moves' as opposed to taking a more active role in coming up with dynamic combats. Thankfully, pg. 42 of the DMG offers an easy solution, and with a bit of extrapolation and addition, I've designed a system I'd like to try out. Please tell me what you think.


Combat Changes: You no longer get powers, aside from basic melee and basic ranged attacks. Instead, you have a combat gauge. The combat gauge measures how dangerous you are in combat, from a combination of adrenaline, magical energy, dramatic motivation, and so on. Your combat gauge begins each combat equal to half your character's level (round down), and increases by 1 each round. Some actions and effects (detailed later) can reduce or increase your combat gauge.

We'll start with an example using an axe, for simplicity. With a simple attack, whenever you hit with an axe, you deal [w] damage (1d8), plus Strength, plus your combat gauge.

However, this system encourages ingenuity and coolness, and rewards being awesome. You are not limited to just hitting a single enemy with your axe, or just standing still and chopping at a foe. If you describe something cool, you get benefits, and if you pull off something spectacular, you'll appreciate the extra effort.

Multiple foes: If you attack multiple targets, make one attack roll against each. Roll damage once and halve it. You deal this much to each foe you hit.

Being cool: If during the course of your turn you describe doing something more interesting than just moving and attacking, you deal 2[w] + Str + gauge.

Being awesome: You can come up with something dangerous and dramatic, but pulling it off requires exertion. Also, you'll generally have to use a move action to acquire some sort of advantage in combat, and make a skill check (DC based on page 42). If you succeed, your attack instead does 3[w] + Str + twice your combat gauge. If you miss, you still deal 1[w] + Str + gauge. After the attack, your combat gauge drops by 2 due to the exertion required, whether you hit or miss.


(Optional rule: For speed of play, players can choose to always take average dice damage, rounded up. So d4 = 3, d12 = 7, etc.)


Equipment: Melee weapons are either light, medium, or heavy. Light weapons let you use Dexterity instead of Strength for attack and damage rolls, and they can be used in your off hand without penalty. Medium weapons can be used one- or two-handed, and if you use them in two hands, you deal +1 damage. Heavy weapons require two hands.

Ranged weapons stay pretty much the same.

(In my own version, I'll probably take cues from Conan d20 and have armor provide DR, and give some weapons armor-piercing abilities, and implement a system to bypass DR, but I'm trying to keep the changes minimal at this stage of design.)


Character Creation: Everyone starts with the normal point buy, 10 + Con HP, simple weapon and cloth armor proficiency, 5 + Con modifier healing surges, and training in any four skills. You have five talents (basically feats, but this term fits better, I fell) to use to design your character's combat options. (I'm handling non-combat stuff in another way, with less rules.)

I tried to come up with feats to make different ability scores generate different fighting styles. Feats include.

Str-based: Armor Proficiency, Shield Proficiency.

Con-based:

Dex-based:

Int-based:

Wis-based:

Cha-based:
 

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So the spellcasters have to describe their spells? Then they add Str to the damage? Or there are no such thing as spellcasters?
 


I wouldn't call it classless 4e, it is at least as different from 4e as any of the other d20 based systems. I think it could be a workable system. It is going to be less tactical in many respects than 4e combat is now probably, but it will be more free-form. Overall though I suspect what you'll find is that most players will come up with a couple of tricks they're going to use most of the time. In effect there will be powers, they just won't be officially mandated by the rules. You're also going to end up with the DM having to do a LOT of deciding on DCs all the time, which could slow things down quite a bit.

I would avoid the armor providing DR kind of thing. Having worked on a few different systems in the past and played various ones that work similarly I have to say that it sounds nice in theory, but it puts a huge premium on high damage output and on heavy armor. Basically the guy in plate becomes untouchable by anything but large weapons wielded by high STR characters using high numbers of weapon dice attacks. The poor lightly armored people on the other hand inevitably can't take many hits at all and things like daggers are just about useless most of the time.

Spell casting is going to be a bear. I think you would basically have to come up with some sort of rule detailing what the costs are for each type of effect you want to add to your attack. In other words you pretty much end up with a magic point system. MP systems are fine and they work OK.

I'm not really honestly sure what the advantage of basing this on 4e is. The 4e skill system is weak and flawed, which means relying on it so heavily for combat probably won't work out too great. So basically by the time you get this working you'll have to rework the way weapons work, rework armor, rework spells, and rework the skill system. It may be d20, but it won't be anything much like 4e and you won't be able to use things like 4e monsters or adventures without porting them. In other words by the time all is said and done it is probably less work to just use some other system besides 4e that is more to your liking.
 

The one thing that immediately jumps out at me as a possible thorn is the 'doing something cool'. That's a subjective call and can (and probably will in many groups) lead to issues between players/dms. "Why was his [whatever he did] cool but my [whatever he did] not?". Also at what point does a 'move' become not cool anymore? "But you said it was cool the first 18 times I did it?" And if it's cool evertime then it becomes a standard thing. "What, my turn? Okay I'll do my shifting groin punch and twist. That's 2d10 right?"

Having played with subjective rules, inter-personal relationships can be a big issue. Heck something as simple as an minor XP bonus awarded at the end of each session for the player who's character did the most memorable thing or the player who roleplayed the 'best' can and has caused problems.
 

Open Ended 4e
Ok let me make your system for me. :confused:

I think that you have a pretty good start. Let me add this.

Character creation ->
Choose a power source:
• Arcane rituals and elemental magic
• Divine prayers and blessings magic
• Martial melee and power attacks
• Primal totems and nature magic
• Psionic mental and telekinetic magic
• Shadow ranged and precise attacks
Choose a role:
• Striker: +1[W]
• Defender: Mark
• Controller: +1 Effect per power
• Leader: Heal
Select feats as per 4e.
Select no powers instead select three points of effects:
• Burst +1
• Blast +1
• Range +5
• Targets another defense
• Specific Condition
etc.

Utility Powers ->
Not sure but they should have more.
Also the effects lists should be tailored to each power source.

Combat ->
Roll a “Power Check” to successfully use a power. The description of the power is up to the player and DM based upon the effects the player is applying and the situation at hand. Of course the DM can apply modifiers to this roll depending on the difficulty and the situation.
STR -> Martial powers
CON -> Primal Powers
DEX -> Shadow powers
INT -> Arcane Powers
WIS -> Psionic Powers
CHA -> Divine Powers

At-will powers
1 [W] + power sources stat for damage + one effect

Encounter powers are DC 15 vs. the power sources stat
2 [W] + power sources stat for damage + 2 effects

“Cool Stuff” or daily powers are DC 20 vs. the power sources stat
3 [W] + power sources stat for damage + 4 effects

If Power Check is successful make an attack roll, STR for melee, DEX for ranged.
If Power Check fails, default to an at-will attack.
Paragon Tier adds +1[W]
Epic Tier adds +2[W]

You can spend an action point to:
Re-roll a failed power check

Implements
None 1d6, off hand, targets REF
Holy Symbol 1d8, off handed, targets REF
Orb 1d8, one handed, targets WILL
Ritual Dagger 1d10, off handed, targets FORT
Rod 1d10, off handed, targets FORT
Staff 2d6, one handed, versatile, targets REF
Tome 1d12, two handed, targets WILL
Wand 2d4, off handed, +1 to hit, targets REF
 

well that gives a few more tendrils on the bones... ligaments are not all connected I might have seen a ghost of muscle but its still pretty translucent
 

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