Cleaner, Faster Crafting Rules

[Nifft]

Is there a mathematical rule behind that little table? The thing that I like best about Nifft's rule is that it had a neat formula. But his method doesn't work for the crafting of ordinary items, and yours does.

Mine are really only applicable to magic items, and perhaps other things of that scale (like castles).

-- N

 

[Three_Haligonians]

A legitimate bump.. I swear

Hey,

First let me say that I really like these rules and fully plan on using them. I have a quick question though that I hope you can help with.

Assuming I've got this right.. one Alchemist's Fire takes 5 days to make:
Base: 5 days x 2 (for Craft DC: 20) x 1/2 (it costs 20gp)

Now, I understand that if your character rolls really well on the craft check, they could potentially make more than one Alchemist's Fire within the 5 day period (by getting double or triple the DC on the craft check), but only if they pay for enough raw materials. If my character only pays one third the cost of one Alchemist's Fire, no matter how well I roll it will take at least 5 days.

My question is if I have got this right, I might have missed something (which is entirely possible) but if I am correct, is there anyway this system can incorporate the ability to craft items in less time? Perhaps by including the rule that says if you double DC you can craft the item in half the time etc?

Either way, kudos on this system

Thanks

J from Three Haligonians

 

[Stalker0]

Alright, to your questions:

No, my system is not based on a math formula. I tried this at first, but it failed miserably because the gold values given in the book have no mathematical correlation with how much time they should take. If you look at Nifft's system, it works pretty well for high gp equipment, but for anything under 1000 gp it doesn't model too well. I basically lumped all the equipment into categories of time that they should take.

As for the alchemist fire, you calculated it correctly, its 5 days. Under teh normal system, assuming a +10 craft skill....you could make an alchemist fire in 3.5 days. In general, you'll find in my system the time for all crafts tend to move towards an average....you can't make a whole drawer of silverware in a day, and it doesn't take you years to make one suit of armor.

I originally tried a +10 to dc for faster crafting like the book rules use. I abandoned it early on because the craft times became too fast, even with relatively low skilled craftsmen. The double dc method was the most reliable one I've found so far.

So if you want to make alchemist fire's faster, you need a +30 craft skill, so its very hard to do. You can use assistant's of course to make this process faster.

If you feel that alchemical items are too slow in this system, I would make the following change: alchemical items do not cost x2 even when their craft dc is above 15.

Hope that helps

 

[Three_Haligonians]

I see.. but now I've thought of another question

So if you want to make alchemist fire's faster, you need a +30 craft skill, so its very hard to do. You can use assistant's of course to make this process faster.

It is probably because I'm tired, but I can't see how it would be faster. If my character with a +30 to his Craft:Alchemy takes 10 on his Alchemist's Fire and gets a roll of 40 (thus double the DC) he crams 10 days of work into 5 days of actual time but this provides no real benefit for him since it would only ever take him 5 days to make the Alchemist's Fire.

Since I'm on an roll here anyway I was also wondering how rules on augmentation of alchemical items might fit into this system. Something along the lines of Lesser Materials? where increasing the DC of the item results in greater or larger effects?

I'd also like to apologize if these seem like inane questions, they're not meant to be.

Thanks,

J from Three Haligonians

 

[Stalker0]

The way I worded this is probably poor, basically you work at twice the rate. So you could get 2 alchemist fires done in 5 days with double the dc...or about 1 in 2.5 days.

I am still working on alternate ways to speed up crafting that make sense as this is the weakest part of my system imo.

As far as improvements, I made add more as I think of them. I would assume alchemical enhancement from supplements would work just fine with this system...just make the craft checks you need to make and pay whatever gold cost there is.

 

[Three_Haligonians]

Right!

That's what I had thought you meant and as far as I can tell, it should work out just fine.

I was also wondering about the concept of "batches." In which a character with the craft skill can work on a number of items (obviously all the same item) with one check. As far as I know, there are no rules that say a character can only make one thing at a time, so concievably, they could make as many things in any given time period as they could afford the raw materials for. I was wondering if people thought that an increase to the DC would be an adequate tradeoff for only making one roll.

Thoughts?

J from Three Haligonians

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

One thing I'd like to see incorporated into a Craft rules system is better incorporation of the value of the work versus the value of the materials.

For example, making a simple ring of gold would actually be easier and quicker to do than making an identical band of iron, due to the softness of the gold, relatively lower melting temperature, etc.

However the gold ring is more valuable, and by the craft rules as written, would take longer to make. This should not be the case. Many items have values that are largely tied up in the value of the materials, not the value of the labor.

 

[Nifft]

One could give a +10 Circumstance bonus to making a batch when you have a large lab at your disposal... so if you're in a dungeon, you can make one vial, but if you're in a well-stocked city, the same effort gets you 20-50. Or something.

-- N

 

[Three_Haligonians]

Hmm..

One could give a +10 Circumstance bonus to making a batch when you have a large lab at your disposal... so if you're in a dungeon, you can make one vial, but if you're in a well-stocked city, the same effort gets you 20-50. Or something.

-- N

That's interesting.. because I was thinking along the lines of saying that for every item a character intends to craft beyond the first, the DC goes up by 2, or 5, or whatever makes the most amount of sense.

Though.. I totally agree with you that they can only do so in a "well-stocked" enviroment.

J from Three Haligonians

 

[genshou]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone have links to research sites where I can find information on the real-world craft times of medieval weapons and armor? Alternate craft rules are well and good, but I've seen them often on ENWorld and can't comment on their validity, because no one has ever posted links to research information of that sort.

Also, has anyone tried the Craft (armorsmithing) rules with a high-level Expert? I wouldn't want my field plate crafted by a 1st-level NPC.