Cleave and AoOs

[Storm Raven]

That isn't what I am saying at all. What I am saying is that, you shouldn't be able to use a feat that is intended to be used during your turn if it isn't your turn!

Cleave is intended to be used when you drop an opponent. The feat says nothing about "your turn".

 

[Elvinis75]

That isn't what I am saying at all. What I am saying is that, you shouldn't be able to use a feat that is intended to be used during your turn if it isn't your turn! You can't cast a spell as an AoO. You can't drink a potion. You shouldn't be able to draw a weapon on an AoO - even with quickdraw - or loose a shield. You can't take a 5' adjustment during an AoO. These are all combat related actions, all requiring that same skill in combat that is also represented by BAB - and feats. Why, then, should cleave be different?

Normal attacks/round are due to you pressing the attack - as you get better, you learn to press the attack harder, and get more opportunities to actually score on them - thus, you get more attacks/round.

IMO, an Attack of Opportunity isn't a full-on combat attack - it shouldn't follow those rules. It is a small opening in someone's defenses, and you stick your sword through it as they pass by. They are created by the target, not the attacker - YOU do something stupid and let your guard down, and then I smack you in the face for it.

Basically, I realize that the rules don't prohibit it from occuring. But I don't think it should.

Ok I guess that I understand now. The difference here is that cleave a triggered ability that is part of any[\b] attack. I’m not going to argue your opinion but there is no facts that back it up. The other examples of actions that you list are prohibited outside your turn. An AoO does not grant a standard action. It allows you to make an attack with the weapon that you are threatening the area with. If that opponent falls it triggers the feat. Think of cleave like any other always on feat that only triggered in certain situations. Like Iron Will it only comes into play in certain situations. There is nothing in the rules that describes an AoO as a lesser attack than the ones that you take during your turn. The only difference is that during your turn you get better at finding the opening for the attacks and thus you make more as you grow in skill(experience). The AoO is not based on your skill but the lack thereof by the opponent. He gives you the free shot by doing something to let down his defenses. On the other hand the blow that you deal is real and not some stab in the dark without your normal skill thus the full attack bonus.

 

[MadScientist]

Our group has always allowed cleave attempts after dropping an opponent with an AoO. I like it that way because it makes combat more tactically interesting. For example it can be useful for a spellcaster to "force" an AoO on a mook (using command or a similar spell) so the fighter can make a cleave attempt at the real threat. You can do similar things with bull-rushes as well.

It also makes it more worth while for the cleave fighter to think about position and potential AoO's. In general I like rules that promote tactical play and teamwork whil,e at the same time, not being complicated. In this case limiting cleave makes it a more complex feat and less interesting tactically IMO.

 

[Snipehunt]

I've never had this come up in-person, b/c we play that you can cleave off of an AoO. Which means, the BBEG's flunkies never drink potions, use missile weapons, cast spells, or do anything else that could ever provoke an AoO. Same thing if the players have flunkies for some reason. Too risky.