Cleave of Oppurtunity?
- Thread starter Goldmoon
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kigmatzomat
Legend
Goolpsy said:
Boy, are you going to be unhappy with Tome of Battle's counter-attack maneuvers. Heck, one of them lets you take TWO AoO for a single provoking action! Best cover your books so the brain-goo doesn't stain them when your head goes all 'splodey!
Storyteller01
First Post
Goolpsy said:
aoO's allow you to attack out of turn anyway.
And what's so bad about 3.0 haste??
I can visualize how it could happen, depending on the circumstance. With a katana (ignore this if you're not interested...
), an opponent steps forward, leaving the thigh open. You AoO! This just happens to put you in position for a thrust into the other mook or ann overhead cut to the guy behind you, so you might as well take that shot as well...I guess I don't mind the lack of adherence to the turn based system. It's nice to ave siome suspense, especially when the enemies get the same advantage.
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hackmastergeneral
First Post
Your other enemy isn't expecting your sword to slice through his pal and catch him in the neck.
Your swift and fast reaction catches everyone off guard, allowing you a moment to swipe into the others.
The genre fiction is full of huge muscly Conan types swinging a huge axe into legions of mooks.
I admit, taking the Cleave attempt at a foe who isn't adjacent to the now dead one is cheesy, and hard to comprehend, but it can be easily explained away.
You take a massive swing at one, cleaving him in twain, your arching swing manages to catch another of your foes in the course of its swing, but everyone else ducks or dives away.
3.5 combat isn't static, with foes locked in combat each swinging for the fences at each other one after another until one drops. Its a moving, dancing thing, where just because the figures stay in one spot on the abttlemap, doesn't mean the players they represent are.
Your swift and fast reaction catches everyone off guard, allowing you a moment to swipe into the others.
The genre fiction is full of huge muscly Conan types swinging a huge axe into legions of mooks.
I admit, taking the Cleave attempt at a foe who isn't adjacent to the now dead one is cheesy, and hard to comprehend, but it can be easily explained away.
You take a massive swing at one, cleaving him in twain, your arching swing manages to catch another of your foes in the course of its swing, but everyone else ducks or dives away.
3.5 combat isn't static, with foes locked in combat each swinging for the fences at each other one after another until one drops. Its a moving, dancing thing, where just because the figures stay in one spot on the abttlemap, doesn't mean the players they represent are.
Nail
First Post
My thoughts as well.mikebr99 said:
By RAW, cleaving off of an AoO is allowed.
Considering rules balance, cleaving off an AoO is fine.
Contemplating "combat imagery", cleaving off an AoO is cool. Your friend drops his guard, is dropped by your foe, and then your foe continues the successful blow into you. Sucks to have friends that suck, doesn't it?
![:]](http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png "Devious :]")
Vlad Le Démon
First Post
AoO & Cleave
You can use Cleave only once a round !
Imagine: It's your turn, you are attacking a foe and kill him, you can cleave an another foe within your reach...your turn is over...A foe provoke an AoO, you kill him...but you can't use cleave again since the ROUND isn't over...
that's why Great Cleave is a good feat, there's no more limitation, you can cleave more than once a round...In most Character Builds, great cleave is not taken because some are thinking that is difficult to drop more than one foe in a round...but in conjuction with AoO i think it could be good.
You can use Cleave only once a round !
Imagine: It's your turn, you are attacking a foe and kill him, you can cleave an another foe within your reach...your turn is over...A foe provoke an AoO, you kill him...but you can't use cleave again since the ROUND isn't over...
that's why Great Cleave is a good feat, there's no more limitation, you can cleave more than once a round...In most Character Builds, great cleave is not taken because some are thinking that is difficult to drop more than one foe in a round...but in conjuction with AoO i think it could be good.
glass
(he, him)
If you are houseruling it, a possible compromise is to not allow the extra attack, but to not count the attack that would have generated towards your number of AoO for the round.Delta said:
That way, the cleave user still gets some benefit, as he can cleave everyone who gives him an opportunity in the round, without cleaving into people who don't.
glass.
Kae'Yoss
First Post
I like the idea of not letting that AoO count against the number of AoOs you can do in that round. Otherwise it defeats the spirit of the rule, in my opinion.
Otherwise, we finally have a new use for the bucket of snails. Since you can't use whirlwind attack to strike all those snails and use the great cleaves to hack your enemy apart any more, just get a high dex score, combat reflexes (and epic combat reflexes later), and great cleave. Now, have your cohort (and maybe followers) throw a multitude of small animals past you (the number of animals depending on your dex score, unless you have the epic feat, in what case let them throw a bucket full of bugs.
Now, you get an AoO against those critters as they leave one of your threatened squares. You should hit most of them, killing them instantly. Use your cleave on the BBEG in front of you. So during your turn, you'll have something like 7 attacks (high BAB, greater flurry of blows, two-weapon fighting), and another half dozen or more (depending on your dex score) against your enemy - each with one of your two +1 wounding monk weapons. Incidently, isn't there a feat that lets you make an AoO with each of your hands? Or play duspblade/monk and get a high-level spell in on each attack.
I guess I'll write up a char for that to use against the next player to use some blatant powergaming concept or rules loop. (I have one of these, though it's partly because of lack of experience, and partly because being sometimes advised by a bunch of munchkings)
Otherwise, we finally have a new use for the bucket of snails. Since you can't use whirlwind attack to strike all those snails and use the great cleaves to hack your enemy apart any more, just get a high dex score, combat reflexes (and epic combat reflexes later), and great cleave. Now, have your cohort (and maybe followers) throw a multitude of small animals past you (the number of animals depending on your dex score, unless you have the epic feat, in what case let them throw a bucket full of bugs.
Now, you get an AoO against those critters as they leave one of your threatened squares. You should hit most of them, killing them instantly. Use your cleave on the BBEG in front of you. So during your turn, you'll have something like 7 attacks (high BAB, greater flurry of blows, two-weapon fighting), and another half dozen or more (depending on your dex score) against your enemy - each with one of your two +1 wounding monk weapons. Incidently, isn't there a feat that lets you make an AoO with each of your hands? Or play duspblade/monk and get a high-level spell in on each attack.
I guess I'll write up a char for that to use against the next player to use some blatant powergaming concept or rules loop. (I have one of these, though it's partly because of lack of experience, and partly because being sometimes advised by a bunch of munchkings)
Vlad Le Démon
First Post
I have just read the FaQ and cleaving on a AoO is legal.
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