Cleaving with ranged weapons?

[Sejs]

Or a rapier. Or a punch?


Heh, or a grapple? Does the guy just get squeezed in half? Or like Ahsvipo, does he break your back... like ZIS!

 

[Hypersmurf]

This ones interesting - because personally I would. Take a staff for instance I hit with one end and then using the momentum spin around and hit the next opponent with the other end...

That's not a Cleave; that's an off-hand attack or a Flurry of Blows.

A Cleave would be "I hit with one end and then using the momentum spin around and hit the next opponent with the same end"...

-Hyp.

 

[Tonguez]

That's not a Cleave; that's an off-hand attack or a Flurry of Blows.

A Cleave would be "I hit with one end and then using the momentum spin around and hit the next opponent with the same end"...

-Hyp.

Yeah I can accept that

 

[robberbaron]

So Cleave unbalances games?
Don't you think WotC would have found that out in the playtest stage if it did?

If you want to houserule that Fighters are weaker than in the book, fine, but I suspect that most people don't think there's a problem.

Oh, and if both ends of the quarterstaff are identical then I don't have a problem with the cleave attack being made with the other end. Otherwise, I do.

Cleave with ranged attacks? Doesn't even deserve the time I spent writing this.

 

[Drakh]

You are right about the visual... but you still get that when your target falls below 0...

Personally why would you need to kill someone to hit 2 people with one motion? i would say you wouldnt - take bruce lee in enter the dragon, he uses a bo-stick to fell 5+ people in one swing, none of them being killed at all.
now this is probably a whirlwind attack but the fact is its still technically the same principle.. hitting more than one person with one swing. Cleave on the other had relies on a great strength (pre-req = 13 str) so it lends to the belief that the attack would need to pass through some part of the first target.

What's your visual for cleaving two opponents standing 20 feet away from each other with a longspear, out of curiosity?

Or cleaving with a spiked gauntlet, or punching dagger, or whip?

-Hyp.

Longspear;... Fighter thrusts the spear through the chest of one kobold and then using his great strength and superior positioning, lifts the kobold and impales him into the chest of another kobold. kobold kebabs anyone?

Spiked Gauntlet;... The fighter uses a backswinging motion to rip the jaw of one orc and then thuds the back of the gauntlet deep into the arm of another.

Punching Dagger;... the thrust rips across the chest of one goblin and into the next in one heroic lunge from the fighter.

Whip;... a whip deals noleathal damage so i would rule that (along with the sap) cleave is not usable.

*BONUS* Unarmed Strike;... the monk lifts his leg high into the side of the ogres head breaking his neck and then continuing his swinging arc brings his heel down into the back of the skull of the ogres war-dog.

 

[Black Knight Irios]

Oh, and if both ends of the quarterstaff are identical then I don't have a problem with the cleave attack being made with the other end. Otherwise, I do.

I would still not allow it, because one end has only half Strength bonus the other end the full Strength bonus to damage.

Envision this: attacking with the off-hand beatin' the opponent down, then cleave using the primary hand for your cleave attack. This should not be possible!

 

[Drakh]

If you want to houserule that Fighters are weaker than in the book, fine, but I suspect that most people don't think there's a problem.

Im not attempting to make fighters weaker, im just trying to bring some realism into the game.

Cleave is not a Fighter defining ability - its a feat so it will affect every class that takes that feat. If all your fighters take cleave dont you think they are taking it for a reason? its powerful and the players know it. But i agree at later levels it will get less and less use as creatures get more and more hps.

ATM any creature that has 1 HD or less, is subject to a 1st level fighters cleave on the very first attack!

 

[Black Knight Irios]

ATM any creature that has 1 HD or less, is subject to a 1st level fighters cleave on the very first attack!

That is not always true. At least for the 1 HD.

 

[Dyntheos]

best thread this week.

 

[RigaMortus]

Longspear;... Fighter thrusts the spear through the chest of one kobold and then using his great strength and superior positioning, lifts the kobold and impales him into the chest of another kobold. kobold kebabs anyone?

That's not a very accurate visual...

First off, you'd need a special feat or attack maneuver to pick up a kobold and place them into another square while doing damage at the same time. It seems like you are trying to combine Bull Rush with a damaging melee attack. Allowing the Longspear to physically move the kobold could have negative effects during combat, which would normally not crop up by use of this "house rule". Think of the abuse this could cause! What if I want to save my friend from certain death. Would you allow me to "stick" him with the Longspear and "toss him" someplace safe, like behind me? That is very akin to what you are doing here with the kobold.

Secondly, if this was possible, I'm sure you'd have minuses to the Cleave attack since the Longspear will be slighly heavier with a dead kobold attached to it. Even if you had the physical strength to lift it, it changes the dynamics of how you'd use such a weapon. You'd probably have to use it as an improvised weapon and take the -4 to hit, unless you had "Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Longspear with dead kobold".