Cleaving with ranged weapons?

[blargney the second]

The web enhancement for Green Ronin's Arcana: Societies of Magic has a ranged cleave feat. It seems fairly decent!

-blarg

 

[blargney the second]

On second thought, here's the relevant feat:

Ranged Cleave [General]
You are renowned as one of the mightiest shots in the land. Your power is so great that you have been known to shoot an arrow directly through one foe to hit a second.
Prerequisite: Point Blank Shot, Str 13+
Benefit: If you deal enough damage to “drop” a creature (typically by reducing it to below 0 hit points) with a bow attack, you may immediately make another bow attack on the next enemy along the arrow’s current trajectory. The second attack is made without using another arrow (as the first arrow simply went through the original target), but the second target is considered to have one-half concealment, meaning that there is a 20% miss chance, even on a successful attack roll.

-blarg

 

[Rel]

Actually, in the case of Cleave, I disagree fairly emphatically

If my Paladin-Sorcerer uses his True Strike as he Smites the evil hobgoblin he's flanking with his Goblinbane longsword from the back of his trusty horse, then Cleaves into the Dire Wolf on the other side...

Excellent post, Hyp! I wish I'd had that post in hand when a player of mine wanted to argue the point. Once again you prove yourself to be a rules-god and I would gladly lick the sweat off your sweaty girlfriend.*



*Particularly if your girlfriend is Nigela Lawson.**
**If my wife is reading this, I remind you that Sunday is Father's Day and I'd rather you kill me after that.

 

[Hypersmurf]

... and I would gladly lick the sweat off your sweaty girlfriend.

I...

Um.

-Hyp.

 

[Angcuru]

Um is right, Hyp.

I think it only makes sense that, considering that with ranged weapons that the amount of drag put upon the projectile would cause it to have a lot less force after exiting the slain opponent, and so would have at least some sort of numerical penalty to attack & damage. Not sure how that would be though, so I'll leave that to someone who want to take the time to figure it out logically.

 

[Tonguez]

The Ranged Cleave feat above looks okay (since its simply saying the arrow passes through the first victims body and then impales the guy behind him) although personally I'd have put req Str15+ just to show that the draw required to achieve the feat is huge

 

[Drakh]

That's not a very accurate visual...

Think of the abuse this could cause! What if I want to save my friend from certain death. Would you allow me to "stick" him with the Longspear and "toss him" someplace safe, like behind me? That is very akin to what you are doing here with the kobold.

Firstly Cleave only works when you drop someone below 0 hps so if the friend is willing to Die to me moved out of harms way then so be it

Secondly at no point do i state that the kobold moves more than 5ft (which is the limit of movement during a round of combat) i just state that the attack would enable the fighter to attack through the opponent (very similar to what the ranged cleave feat describes with an arrow) - remember a kobold does not FILL a 5ft square - he simply uses this space to maneuver and obtain better position for attacks.

Secondly, if this was possible, I'm sure you'd have minuses to the Cleave attack since the Longspear will be slighly heavier with a dead kobold attached to it.

The attack is with the same weapon regardless of whats attached to it - if it was an ogre then the attack would still pass through but the ogre would certainly not be lifted off the ground.

Lastly - D&D is about roleplaying, its about making a simple few dice rolls more attractive and entertaining to your players - i make great efforts to add visual desriptions to even the most simple of dice rolls in an attempt to help visualise the adventure for my players and to enhance their tales with NPCs they meet.
If a fighter came to town and said "I have slain many kobolds with a single blow" he could (with the help of my descriptions) instead say "I once thrust my spear through the heart of a kobold and with my great strength scewered him into anothers chest!"

If you dont like it - fine - just dont pick holes for the sake of it

 

[Hypersmurf]

Secondly at no point do i state that the kobold moves more than 5ft (which is the limit of movement during a round of combat) i just state that the attack would enable the fighter to attack through the opponent (very similar to what the ranged cleave feat describes with an arrow) - remember a kobold does not FILL a 5ft square - he simply uses this space to maneuver and obtain better position for attacks.

Except that because of the way a longspear threatens at 10' but not at 5', there's never actually a setup where you can kill a kobold and also threaten one in a square behind it. A longspear is a piercing weapon. To attack into two squares that you threaten from your own square with a longspear, you must pull it back and stab again. It's not possible for the same thrust to threaten two creatures.

-Hyp.

 

[Drakh]

It's not possible for the same thrust to threaten two creatures.

I beg to differ...

yes i agree that if one is behind you and another is infront "flanking" you its difficult to visuallise this particular attack but there is nothing saying you cant "slash" with a piercing weapon in an arc. you essentially treat the longspear as a quarterstaff, brace it against your body and swing it in a circle arround you.

Just because a weapons is listed as a particular attack type (piercing/slashing/bludgeoning) doesnt mean it cant be used as a different type. A longsword can be used to thrust with its point, has a cutting edge which means it can also slash, and has a flat blade and pommel that means it can bludgeon. but now we going into something entirely different

 

[Hypersmurf]

Just because a weapons is listed as a particular attack type (piercing/slashing/bludgeoning) doesnt mean it cant be used as a different type. A longsword can be used to thrust with its point, has a cutting edge which means it can also slash, and has a flat blade and pommel that means it can bludgeon. but now we going into something entirely different

Weapons which can deal multiple types are listed as such. Scythe, Halberd, Dagger: Salshing or Piercing.

A longsword may have a point and a pommel, but you can only deal slashing damage with it. A shortsword may have an edge, but you can't make it vorpal.

A longspear can only deal piercing damage.

-Hyp.