Cleric Domains variation...

[Pbartender]

I had a thought on a different way to use Clerical Domains, tell me what you think...

Instead of Cure/Inflict spells, the cleric would be able to spontaneously cast his domain spells in the same manner.

I am uncertain as to how powerful that change may or may not be... If necessary, the bonus spell slots used for preparing domain spells can always be eliminated to balance it up.

 

[Destil]

It's come up often, and is very powerful with the right domains, like Trickery and Water. IMHO it's generaly overpowered unless you do somethig like seasong did and make a clerical cass more like a wizard / sorcerer in basic abilities.

 

[Pbartender]

Thanks.

 

[Spatzimaus]

Originally, we did exactly that IMC. We let people swap for any of their domain spells, instead of cure/inflict.

There was a problem as time went on. It's just a bit too strong. Let's say I took two non-healing domains, and then loaded up every slot with heal spells. I'd be like a Sorcerer who knew three spells at every level, immediately upon reaching that spell level, one level earlier than normal. Not counting my better BAB, HP, turn undead, granted powers... oh, but no familiar.

It's also just a lot stronger in general. Let's say a person picks Healing as one of their domains. Besides having the option of swapping for a non-healing spell, this Cleric would be much stronger since he could swap for Heal instead of being forced to use Empowered Cure Critical Wounds. Swapping every high-level spell for Mass Heal would do the same.

If the person only has two domains, it's not a big deal and can be compensated for in other ways. If the person takes PrCs to where they have a half-dozen domains, then it's REALLY unbalanced. They become better spontaneous spellcasters than Sorcerers; even if they loaded every slot with the same spell, that'd still be like a Sorcerer knowing N+1 spells at each level.

One solution would be to drop all Clerics to one domain. The better solution, IMHO, would be to say that you can swap for whichever domain spell you selected for that level that day. You know, in that extra non-swappable domain slot. So, you still only have one option when you spontaneously cast, but now you have the added flexibility of picking each day, AND you're less healing-oriented.

Oh, and you also need to say that Clerics can't metamagic a spontaneously cast spell at all. If you want it metamagicked, put it in the domain slot that way.

 

[Urklore]

I thought there was a feat somewhere that let you do this. For the cost of one of your precious feat, you were able to pick a domain at the time you took the feat. You could then spontaneously cast spells from that domain like you could do for heal/harm spells.

Anyone remember the name of the feat of the source it was from? I for the life of me cannot remember, but I do remember reading of such a feat.

 

[Drawmack]

I think this leads to a very vast power difference within a single class. This vast power difference makes it nearly impossible to balance the other classes to this class.

For an example take war and trickery and slap them on a 12th level cleric with this option. He's a pretty powerful foe.

Now take water and healing and give them to a 12th level cleric. He's not nearly so powerful.

IMHO
In other words it opens the class up to much to balance in all situations against the other classes and therefor leds itself to munchikin style playing.

 

[iwatt]

We use spontaneous casting of both Domain and Cure/Inflict in the campaign I play in, andalso in the one I DM for. On paper it actually looks unbalancing, but the truth is, with the exorbiatant amount of damage you can dish out and receive in an encounter, what usually happens is that you end up using a great amount of spells in curing PCs. But this usually happens because we tend to play time-critical adventures where you can't rest after every encounter to regain hps and spells. If we rest to long, the bad guys get away, or dungeon respawning occurs (I hate this).

To be honest though, we´ve just reached 5th level spellcasting, and haven't really playtested the fact tha you can now spontaneously cast your 5th level domain spells. I´m actually leaning towards not allowing them IMC, but I haven't discussed it with my DM yet.

Slightly OT, but I'v never understood the need to nerf the one Core Class based on aiding the rest of the party. I´ve got a cleric of Tempus with the Sternght and war Domains that can kick the party tank's ass when he Uber buffs himself (at the expense of about 6 spell slots), but this is easily remedied with a targeted dispel. Actually, in my experieence, spreading the Buffs is a lot more effective.

Well, that's just my 2 cp.

 

[Drawmack]

I wasn't talking about nerfing any class - just keeping them all balanced.

So your cleric can kick the tank's ass - until his spells wear out or get dispelled that's not unbalancing because the tank can do it all the time.

 

[Hashmalum]

The feat that people here are referring to is Spontaneous Domain Access from the Epic Level Handbook. Do I think that taking an epic level feat that requires Wisdom 25, 30 ranks of Spellcraft, and the ability to cast ninth-level divine spells as prerequisites, and giving it at least twice over to every cleric is unbalancing? Yeah, I do.

 

[Pbartender]

I see your points about imbalances in the game. Of course, how powerful the cleric actually is all depends on what domains he's allowed to choose from and what spells his diety sactions (I mean, really, why should a good/healing god allow his preists to use inflict/harm spells, for example?).

Other ways to balance it would be to get rid of the bonus spell slots for domain spells, or to make Turn Undead into a Clerics only feat (similar to the Fighter's Weapon Specialization, or the Wizard's Spell Focus).

I really like this idea of domains... It really seems to make more of a distinction between clerics of different faiths. Is there a way to make it work? Or is it really going to be that much trouble?