Angerland said:
I have seen many folks talking of CoDzilla's on the boards (here and Wotc). Since I am by no means a regular power gamer, I was wondering what does it take to power up a Cleric or a druid to truly powerful status?
If there are already links out please show me so I don't bog down with a thread that may have been asked and answered 1,000,000 times before.
I would like to see both as I want to play one of these classes in an upcoming campaign. By nature I love a good solid melee type but I have played wizards and rogues in the past as well.
Going back to the OP's question...
Both classes are very potent, even in a core only environment.
Strong HP: D8s are almost as good as it gets.
Ability Scores: Druids need only strong Wisdom and Con. Clerics have bigger problems with MAD, but they aren't impossible; 14 STR, 12 DEX, 14 CON, 8 INT, 15 WIS, 8 CHA will get you a viable cleric with 24 points.
Saving Throws: Fort and Will save are the two most important saves, and these classes have them both.
BAB: 3/4 BAB is fairly strong. Once Divine Power comes in, BAB is equal to a fighter's. Plus both classes have plenty of buffs to get their attack bonus up, and druids can easily wildshape for multiple attacks.
Very Tactically Versatile: Clerics or Druids can memorize the best spells for the situation each day. Moreover, druids can wildshape into something optimal for the situation (Scouting? How about an eagle? Combat -- try an ape) or use summon nature's ally to whip up a useful ally (flying/energy damage/immunities/etc). For example, a Druid can convert a Summon Nature's Ally IV spell into a Unicorn, which has plenty of healing and protection from evil 10' radius.
Multiple Roles: A cleric or druid can easily fill multiple roles. With proper domain selection, a cleric can easily double as a warrior (Strength for Enlarge person, Elf for Archery feats, etc), the face (trickery for bluff), the utility mage (Magic domain), the flashy evoker (Fire) or the trapfinder (Rogue 1/Cloistered Cleric X, Kobold Domain). A Druid can fill multiple roles due to their versatile spell list and wildshaping options.
Good class options: Clerics can select between the Cleric and Cloistered Cleric variant. Traditionally Clerics are beefier and sturdy; Cloistered Clerics are skill monkeys with useful wizard-like utility spells. Druids are a cross between the two, balancing lighter armor choices with a better skill set.
They gain disproportionately in power as more books are added.
Spells: As Divine Casters, they know all spells; so if you add a book of spells, they know all of them! A wizard likely would not learn all of the new spells in a new splatbook and thus would not have them available. Adding new domains adds yet more spells to their list.
Feats: As quite melee-capable characters, Clerics/Druids can get mileage out of combat feats, although ones with longer feat chains are harder to work in. Clerics have exclusive access to Divine Feats and Divine Metamagic, which are very potent.
Monsters: More monsters just means more animals to wildshape into, more critters to Summon with Summon Monster, or more things to Polymorph into (via appropriate domains).
PrCs: Some PrCs are quite useful for divine casters. Radiant Servant of Pelor or Church Inquisitor, for example.
Given all of these strengths, you can see how a cleric or druid can fill nearly any party role. They can be a perfectly good trap-smith, face, warrior, or blaster. Oftentimes they can change what role they fill just by selecting proper spells/wildshape forms.
won't serve you well either. I said above that there are situations where DSP: holy word and its derivative uses are not going to help. That's certainly one of them. (Though I might point out that if the cleric is taken by surprise - which isn't supposed to happen - he can just word of recall out and deal with you later. Almost any caster can escape. That's why instantly winning, rather than relying on death through hit point loss, is crucial at higher levels.)
